Dance with the one that asked you first

Yesterday's Miss Manners asks:

DEAR MISS MANNERS: Is it acceptable for a girl to decline an invitation to a dance, only to later accept another invitation to the same dance? This is for a high school dance or prom.

Miss Manners replies,

GENTLE READER: If you are the parent of a young gentleman to whom this has been done, Miss Manners can confirm that the young lady is indeed rude, and that however crushed your son is, he is better off. She would be capable of committing another rudeness, such as breaking the date later.

If you are the parent of a young lady who proposes to do this, it is still rude, but Miss Manners has more to say.

You should tell your daughter that as the idea is to avoid hurting the young gentleman’s feelings, in theory, she should be able to do this if he would never find out. Then ask her how she would decline without being unkind or untruthful. And remind her that there are no secrets in high school.

There is another lesson you might give, even though she will not believe it. That is that some law of nature makes the least popular boy in high school into the most desirable man later in life, yet, no matter how successful and glamorous he has become, makes him remember and continue to smart from having been slighted.

Lulu: Whoa. I thought I understood high school politeness rules, but Miss Manners seems really strict here. My understanding was that you certainly couldn't agree to go to the dance with one boy, then change your mind and cancel and switch to someone else, but I didn't think you couldn't say no to one boy then say yes to another!

Ashley: Yeah, what the ef!

Lulu: It makes THEORETICAL sense, I guess; like, if you show up with someone else, it's making a pretty unequivocal statement that you just didn't like that guy, which lacks the kind of plausible deniability that politeness strives for. Like presumably you say no for a particular reason, like in Jean and Johnny when Johnny said he couldn't go to the Sadie Hawkins dance with Jean because his grandmother was sick, and then she was super hurt when he showed up anyway with some lame excuse that she got better, so... But the practical result of this rule is that you have to go with whoever asks you first if you're going to go at all. What if someone you hate asks you super early?

Ashley: Right. You have to decide if you go with the first guy or not at all? That seems harsh. I guess you could lie, and that would be fine. "I'm sorry, I'm going with someone else," then just hope someone else asks (or ask someone yourself).

Lulu: That's definitely the solution if you're pretty sure a particular person will ask you soon, like in Achingly Alice when Sam asked her but she was more or less going steady with Patrick and assumed they'd go together even though they hadn't yet discussed it. In that book, she was honest, but it was pretty awkward.

Ashley: If you don't get another date, you could show up anyway by yourself, "Something came up and they cancelled."

Lulu: I just think you should be allowed to say "No thanks." Miss Manners is usually all about no excuses, no explanations. No lying, but a clear, unexplained "No" is fine, when it's adults. But I guess that is usually in situations where "No" means you're not going at all.

Ashley: I still don't get why she has to say yes to the first guy; there's a weird guilt trip going on. "Oh, no, the poor boy's feelings." What about her feelings?

Lulu: It does put her in a very restrictive position, where her only option is to stay home as punishment for being asked by the wrong guy. I feel like girls who are liked by creepy guys are already in super awkward positions. If there has to be such a rule, I would prefer if it were: you're only allowed to ask one person. If they say no, you have to stay home. At least then the person with agency is being punished for the wrong choice. It's a game or a gamble, not an arbitrary thing that happens to you.

Ashley: I guess the alternate solution if you think, as a girl, that a wrong guy is going to ask you, is to go around asking guys you like. They can't say no and then show up at the dance! Ask the most popular guy! This letter is so off the mark I don't even know...

Lulu: Yeah, that's the only solution. Just turn it into an aggressive game of instant asking as soon as the dance is announced. Everyone RUNS from homeroom and tries to find the cutest girl/guy while they dodge for cover, desperately trying to avoid being asked before they can find each other

Ashley: First day of high school. "Wanna go to senior prom in 4 years?" BOOM score.

Knit, purl, invade Poland

We're back, baby! And all it took was a question about knitting.

From yesterday's Miss Manners:

DEAR MISS MANNERS: I am a young woman in my early 20s, and I have recently taken up knitting in an effort to broaden the scope of my hobbies. I thoroughly enjoy it, and it provides endless entertainment for me.

I started off knitting at home, and once I became more confident in my abilities, I began taking my knitting outside with me. It has proved to be useful in staving off boredom while waiting for the bus or at the doctor’s office, among other places.

Unfortunately, since I have been taking my knitting with me, I find myself frequently asked by several people when the baby is due. I am not pregnant; I am merely a larger girl with an affinity for homemaking crafts. I find myself at a loss for a response and typically end up looking at the offender with a mix of shock and surprise.

Sometimes the look is not enough, and they remain there smiling and waiting for an answer, at which point I have a tendency to laugh nervously and say something to the effect of “I’m not pregnant.” I feel bad about how chagrined the questioners are, but I can’t think of any other response besides making up a due date to preserve the poor folks’ dignity.

Is there a better response I could give these well-meaning (and seriously misguided) people? Am I more or less doomed to pregnancy questions because the only feasible reason for a young woman to knit is that she is expecting?

Miss Manners responds:

GENTLE READER: As Miss Manners understands it, football players who knit do not have this problem. But we all have the problem of inspiring strangers to voice the first silly association that comes into their heads.

Pretending to be pregnant would only encourage such people to make even more intrusive comments. They have compromised their dignity enough as it is.

Unless you are knitting booties, you can merely state what it is, in fact, that you are knitting: “Actually, this is going to be a ski mask. For skiing, not for robbing convenience stores.”

Lulu: Unexpected but welcome robbery humor from Miss Manners! It's a good point, too, that you could say 'oh, this is an adult sweater' or 'oh, this is for my sister, I'm not having a baby' and pretend to assume they thought you were pregnant because they thought you were knitting booties and not because you are fat.

Ashley: Except they DO assume you're pregnant, because being pregnant doesn't mean you're knitting for the baby. They assume if you're knitting at all that you're pregnant. So what would happen there is that it would become a longer conversation. I've gotten that comment a few times, and I'm not fat*.

[*Ed. note: Confirmed.]

Lulu: That is so weird.

Ashley: "I'm not pregnant, I just like to knit" is what I go with. But like matter of factly, not embarrassedly.

Lulu: Yeah, in a friendly way.

Ashley: Right. As if it's a fine assumption on their part to make, and I'm the weirdo. It's one of those things where it's really not worth fighting over... I know, even for me, right? :D

Lulu: Ha.

Ashley: mostly it cuts the conversation off quickly, which is what I want. I don't want embarrassed stammering on their part about how their sister blah blah. I do not care.

Lulu: Lots of people knit these days, you would think it wouldn't be that weird.

Ashley: I told you the I knit like a nazi story, right?

Lulu: haha what?

Ashley: DUDE. This happened like last week. This is why pregnancy comments don't even phase me anymore. There are NAZI comments.

Lulu: Oh man. I need to hear this.

Ashley: So I'm knitting on the 39, and there are tons of empty seats, but this woman gets on the bus, sees me knitting, and plops down next to me. She observes me for a while, really intensely, and then says, "That's weird, you knit like a nazi." In a super conversational, friendly tone.

Lulu: HOW DOES A NAZI KNIT

Ashley: LIKE ME, LULU

Lulu: Is this the Continental vs. American thing?

Ashley: So I go, "cough, erm, what?" And, yah, it turned out that the REASON English/US people knit differently is as a form of protest against the nazis. So like they all used to knit like me, but during WWII, they switched!

Lulu: Really?? They just starting knitting less efficiently? To protest Teutonic efficiency???

Ashley: Apparently!! A woman from knitting group confirmed it! I haven't wikied it yet though.

Lulu: But all of the Continent still knits Continental.

Ashley: I knooooow. She ended up guessing that I'm not American from my accent, so she seemed less concerned then. She just wanted to make sure I wasn't a nazi sympathist counter-protester! But I like how that was just like a thing you're supposed to know.

Lulu: I am American and I learned from you, so for me it's a problem.

Ashley: Yeah. You're just fucked.

Lulu: I don't want to be a nazi, but at the same time, I like how those people knit. They make some good sweaters. I'm just saying.

Facebook Etiquette: there's less than you might think

It's been a long time since we posted on Carolyn Hax, both because she is usually unimpeachable, and because her RSS feed URL changed, like, a month ago, and I didn't notice. Today's second letter on Facebook etiquette, from an oddly tech-savvy grandma, piqued our interest!

Recently, I had the following conversation with my sister:

Me: “I’m taking care of my grandson until his mom and the new baby come home from the hospital.”

Sis: “WHAT? When was the baby born? Why didn’t you tell me?”

Me: “Well . . . we posted it on Facebook . . .”

Sis: “Oh, I never bother with that!”

Maybe I should have given her the news personally, but at the same time, I feel slighted that she’s not interested in me enough to read my “public” news.

It’s not the first time I’ve run into this sort of thing — I’m not young, and neither are most of my friends. Many are technologically challenged. Some don’t understand that “I had a grilled cheese sandwich for lunch” means “I don’t have exciting news, but I’m alive and well,” rather than, “I’m going to force you to read every tedious detail about my life.” I understand that.

But having gotten to the point of opening a Facebook account and becoming “friends” with me, would you say there’s any rudeness in failing to check it occasionally?

Carolyn's response basically amounts to "leave me out of it," an unusual but fun choice coming from an advice columnist.

Oh my goodness.

If the outcome you want is to get along with your sister, then learn from this without prejudice and start sharing big news with her (and others) directly. If what you want is to find fault with your sister, then you’ll have to look somewhere else.

Lulu: You're supposed to keep up religiously with all your fb news feed posts? What if you have hundreds of friends? I think I'm the only person I know with a two-digit number of friends, and even I miss tons of updates if I happen not to check for a day or two.

Ashley: Obv she's wrong. EXCEPT. When there's a big event that you're expecting to occur in your family, it's KIND OF your responsibility to keep track of it. That doesn't need to be on Facebook. From the letter, it seems like the sister knew about the pregnancy but not the day of birth. If she was interested, why didn't she call up and ask how things were going?

Lulu: True, the responsibility of keeping track of all interested parties and disseminating information to each one should not fall entirely on the shoulders of the person who has the interesting life, who is presumably busy.

Ashley: Hypothetical here. Let's say I have a thing coming up, an exam or something. It's a big deal for me but I don't assume it is for anyone else. I post on FB. If people want more details, they ask me. Why would I inundate the world with details if they don't care? Wouldn't that be the grilled cheese for lunch equivalent? You can't bitch about FB being too crowded with details and then demand more details!

Lulu: Wait... which one are you arguing against?

Ashley: Both of them! They're both wrong.

Lulu: Answering the LW's question directly, no, there's no rudeness in failing to check fb even if you went to the trouble of creating an account and friending someone, because people open fb accounts for different reasons. "For a lark" or "to play games" or "to check every blue moon when I'm bored" are legit, and you'd still friend people/accept friend requests, because it would be weirder not to.

I think if you want to know something about someone, you should contact them using whatever means of communication is most comfortable for you. Check their fb, call them, whatever. It's not their fault if they fail to contact you in the way you want.

It's also nobody's responsibility to keep up on your preferred method of making announcements. If you really want a specific person to know something, contact them directly; don't assume the message got to them unless you get a confirmation (response to post, email back, they say "uh-huh", whatever).

So, yes, I disagree with both of them too.

Ashley: Yay!

Lulu: This reminds me of a question I read awhile ago. Someone thought it was rude for people to post a lot, because it pushes the 'meaningful' posts off. It was like the opposite of this LW with her grilled cheese posts. Let's see if I can find it. I don't think we discussed it, which makes it more difficult.

Ashley: We didn't. I didn't read it.

Lulu: Yeah, when I search for "facebook" in my gmail I just get this:

me: I have poked you.
me: you will be notified of the poke next time you log into facebook.
me: just so there are NO SURPRISES.
Ashley: I HAVE POKED YOU BACK YOU JERK
me: WHAT

Lulu: Oh, here we go, Miss Manners from March 25.

What do you think about Facebook “friends” who post things that no one cares about, like “I took a nap today” or “I woke up feeling grumpy today” or “I got my oil changed today”?

Also, and even more annoying, are people who post lots of pictures and comments about themselves, their kids, their vacations, etc., but never comment on anyone else’s posts. Please share a little Facebook etiquette for everyone!

Miss Manners responds,

What a gift those sites are for bores. If someone came up to you at a party and said, “I got my oil changed today,” how long would it be before you had to excuse yourself because you thought you heard your mother calling you?

The good part is that it is easier to escape bores who have not cornered you in person.

Politeness in any form of discourse requires taking into consideration what would interest the listener, which is exactly the element that is missing in bores. It is a particular danger of Internet postings that what might interest one person is not of widespread interest.

Miss Manners is willing to imagine that the oil change would be of interest to someone planning to use the car; the nap would interest someone directly concerned with that person’s health or ability to stay up late for festivities that day; and the grumpiness might serve as a warning to keep out of his or her way.

No doubt there are general announcements intended for an entire circle of friends: births, for example, or “I won the lottery.” But one has to be totally besotted with someone else to be fascinated by the mundane details of that person’s everyday life — as indeed, bores are with themselves. You may be sure that they do not bring this sort of thing up because they want to hear about your oil change.

Lulu: The thing is, this doesn't need to be an etiquette issue. Facebook HAS TOOLS FOR THIS..

1. You can use "Top News" instead of "Most Recent" and it will weight the posts which have comments and likes.

2. Using the pulldown under "Most Recent" you can filter to show only the most recent posts from the people in a particular friend group. So you can create a friend group consisting only of your most interesting friends.

3. To ignore specific people, you can click the 'x' which appears in on the top left corner of a news post on mouse over, and the dropdown offers an option to 'hide all by' that person. They will be added to your "hidden" list which you can also manipulate if you go to "Edit Options" under "Most Recent."

It does not need to be a problem that your friends are boring! No need to complain that people are being rude by being boring! It does not need to be a problem! As Miss Manners says, it's much harder to ignore them in person.

Ashley: I know! I'd rather have them on FB!

Lulu: What do you think about this second remark about how people are rude for not commenting? Like there's some kind of currency of comments and it's like Lendle borrowing and lending or something, where you earn the right to post a status update by commenting on other people's?

Ashley: Or like slash fic. Didn't you once say you'd only write a sequel to a story if you got to a certain number of comments?

Lulu: That was off the record. Anyway, it was to gauge interest!...

Okay, I do feel like the fanfic community is a specifc place where comments do serve as currency, to a certain extent. They are the only payment writers get. I sometimes feel like a taker for posting stories more than I read and comment on other people's work, but I've been assured by multiple readers that that's okay. There are enough people who only comment and don't post to make up for it.

So even within fanfic where "getting feedback" is a goal people are openly working for, it's still understood that certain people will 100% post and 0% comment, certain people will 100% comment and 0% post, and there is room for that.

And I never felt that that was a thing on Facebook.

Ashley: Right. I certainly don't comment on FB (maybe once a month?) and I never thought I was rude! I'll respond to other people's comments. Like if someone likes my sweater or something, I say thanks!

Lulu: I VERY RARELY comment unless someone asks a question. I never felt that there was any social pressure to comment. I think that social pressure is just in the LW's imagination.

Ashley: Agreed.

Lulu: There is also a Miss Manners from April 1 about Facebook invites, which i found in the process, but here, MM is right. Don't use Facebook invites if you need an RSVP.

In conclusion:

Facebook is good for some things and not others!

If you have preferences for what method to keep in contact with, you should use that method! To keep in contact! But don't expect others to know which method is best for you.

Post whatever you want to post! Read whatever you want to read!

GIVE US COMMENTz0RS LoLoLoL!!

Notes!

Reader mail! Rosalie alerted us to an awesome smackdown of an advice column suggesting that a 14-year-old lesbian should remain in the closet. Thanks, Rosalie! The original letter appeared in the Dear Lizzie column of the Pennsylvania Patch newspaper, which we may have to start following.

Now, we move onto college. In April 14's Miss Manners, a student doesn't want to share notes!

I am a college student with a question about the etiquette of borrowing notes. It has taken me a long time and a lot of hard work to get to college, as I’ve been financially independent since high school. Now that I’m actualizing my goals of higher education, I take my studies seriously and make a point to not skip class, to do my homework, to understand the material, etc.

There is a girl who was in a couple of my same classes last term and is again currently. She is an excuse maker, and she is constantly behind. She asks me for help. Last week, she asked to borrow notes. I said okay but told her to return them before next class so I could keep my notes in order.

Surprise, she didn’t show up. She brought my notes back to class today, but, since she missed class again on Monday, now wants to borrow those notes. I find it rude that she would ask for a favor, not uphold my conditions, and then ask for another.

I’ve turned down her requests for help in the past, but she keeps asking. I am sick of hearing her self-pitying; none of her excuses are justifiable for consistent lagging (i.e. oversleeping, slow bus, etc.), nor are they more serious than any of the challenges I’ve overcome to be here. Life is hard, so is college; stop making excuses and get to work.

How do I politely tell her that I am not her personal tutor?

Miss Manners responds,

You have a perfect excuse in that your classmate did not abide by the terms you set when lending her your notes. Yet you have fresh experience of how annoying excuses are.

Miss Manners assures you that no such evidence is necessary — nor is using one desirable. Excuses invite the persistent to argue back. You would only bring on another round of her excuses and unreliable promises.

Lulu: I'm not anti-nerd. I'm not anti-take-good-notes or anti-do-well-in-school. I like all of those things! (Although I did not take good notes.) But this LW really rubs me the wrong way, and it's not just the word "actualize." It's pretty clear that the thing about keeping notes in order is an excuse, and the LW doesn't want to share because he (I'll assume it's a he) doesn't think the asker deserves them. He feels put-upon that he has to do all the work and some people GET AWAY WITH DOING NOTHING. I can't stand that attitude.

Granted, the asker sounds like a tool, too--if you borrow something, you should return it before the other person needs it--but what's the big deal with giving out your notes? Why do you have to be possessive of them? Why can't we help each other, regardless of the moral fortitude of our peers?

That said, since he believes that hard work is a sign of virtue and failing to prioritize academics is a sign of worthlessness, he could at least make an effort to find out if the reason she can't make it to class is because of obstacles (e.g. job, family responsibilities, learning difference) or priorities (prefers to sleep, active social life, overloaded on other classes etc.) "Overslept" could mean "I was partying" or "I was working the night shift to PUT MYSELF THROUGH COLLEGE."

But if he doesn't want to share his notes, he should just say so. It seems like the only reason he's doing it is because he's dimly aware that refusing would make it look like he's being uptight, but since that is what he is doing, he should just be honest about it.

Ashley: Or he could just photocopy them.

Efficient advice machines!

Ashley: What do you think about today's The Vine?

Q. I have an older sister. The thing about her is that she was a pretty comprehensively horrible older sister to grow up with, and a while back, I decided that I was kind of done with her being a horrible older sister to be a grownup with, too. ... I offered her a deal. I wanted to get off the merry-go-round of aggravation and nastiness, so I proposed terms which boiled down to some pretty elemental behaving-like-adults stuff. ... Sister said no, she wasn't interested. I said if that was her choice, then we couldn't have a relationship any more.

It's been about a year and a half since then. In that time I have seen her in person once, at Christmas 2009, at our parents' house. (I was civil, but distant.) The part that gets awkward? She still gives me birthday and Christmas presents, transferred via our parents. This Christmas, my mother followed this up with suggesting that I should write her a thank-you note for the present I had rather awkwardly taken along with my gifts from my parents and family friends.

I feel like doing so would be wrong — because I set a boundary and it's important to me to hold it, and because it would probably suggest to her that I was caving and we could resume a relationship on her terms, which I feel would be unfair, since that isn't going to happen.

What do you think? Should I write her a note — but tell her that I'm still not going to interact with her if I have a choice? Should I ignore it, and treat the gifts as damages for past injuries, or pass them on to charities? Should I reject the gifts entirely? (In my cultural background, refusing a gift is incredibly rude, and I'm reluctant to horrify my parents like that, but…)

A. But you're still interacting with her. You still have a relationship with her, and she still controls you through it. Standing right at the boundary line and informing her, over and over, that this is the boundary and you will defend it is not ignoring her or ending the relationship. It's creating even more thankless work and frustration for yourself within it. ...

Accept that she will not learn, give yourself permission to stop giving a shit, and do whatever requires the least effort and emotional engagement going forward. It doesn't sound to me like you've explained the situation to your parents, which you might consider doing, in brief, so they understand why you behave certain ways, but if it's going to turn into even more drama and they'll still make a federal case out of you accepting the gift, well, then just accept the damn thing. Take it, write a short thank-you note, and sell it on eBay or drop it in a trash can two blocks away. ...

You don't have to forgive her, or stop thinking she's a dick, but if you genuinely don't want to deal with her? Don't. But holding a boundary this unswervingly is dealing with her. Find another way, one that lets you go back to not thinking about her as soon as possible.

Lulu: I think if you have told somebody you do not want them to contact you anymore, you do not need to write them a thank you note. She can accept the gift given through the parents and discard or keep it as she wishes, because the parents don't need to be put in the middle of this, but if she has told her sister she doesn't want a present, then it's fine for the sister's presents to go into the void UNTHANKED.

Ashley: Yeppers!

Lulu: Hee hee. Anything to add or shall we move on to dispatching Miss Manners?

Ashley: I think that covers it!

Lulu: Okay, so today's Miss Manners.

Q. I seem to be at the very beginning of what might be a romance, having gone on two fun and innocent dates. I know that you encourage a period of "friendship" before plunging in. Would it ruin the illusion of just being friends to give a handmade valentine card?

I do like to make valentine cards with lots of lace and red hearts, but maybe that would seem silly. Should I give it in person, or mail it? Mailing it would require finding out the mailing address somehow. And, what should it say?

The general message I would like to convey is, at the very least, "I would very much like to keep dating you!"

A. Leaving aside the notion of "plunging in," which Miss Manners would prefer not to think about, she may well have suggested the friendship approach to romance. Not that she really expected anyone to listen.

So instead of courtship strategy, she will discuss your question in terms of the strategy of etiquette. As this has to do with the effect on the recipient, it may amount to the same approach.

The object should be to delight him, rather than to embarrass him. You know him better than Miss Manners does, although not much better, since you don't know where he lives. If you believe that a valentine from you will set his heart racing, go ahead. However, she believes that even if a romance is budding between you, it is all too likely to inspire the unromantic thought, "Uh-oh. Was I supposed to send you one?"

Ashley: I do agree re: not making him think he was supposed to get you something, but I don't think a card necessarily implies that, especially if you like making them. Maybe make a stack and pointedly fish out his? So he doesn't think he's too special?

Lulu: Ha ha, yeah. Search ostentatiously through a messenger bag of red envelopes. This is similar to advice Darnell gave me about the candygrams - plausible deniability! She should definitely try to keep it simple and spontaneous-seeming, and avoid going overboard. She shouldn't send it in the mail.

Ashley: Agreed. Mailed would be weird.

Lulu: Okay, so we're done here too? We're so efficient with our advice today! Bam bam bam! Let's do another! Any thoughts on ex-girlfriend pictures on Facebook? This is in Love Letters, and Meredith comes down HARD on the side of taking down the pics.

Q. [My sister's] boyfriend and the guy I've been dating for a month are both reluctant to remove their cuddly, kissy, coupley Facebook pictures with ex-girlfriends. Both men rationalize that they are trying to maintain casual friendships with these exes, and do not want to take the hurtful action of removing or untagging the pictures.

My sister and I lean toward thinking that this is a bunch of malarkey. My sister fears that her boyfriend still cherishes feelings for his ex. I don't feel similarly threatened by my guy's ex-lady, but I just feel awkward that his profile contains dozens of public photos of him with her! ... I can't relate to my guy's reasoning since I'm not friends with any of my exes, but personally I always take down coupley pictures once a relationship has ended. (I've also noticed that many of my guy friends keep pictures of their ex-girlfriends on their profiles. Is this related to gender?)

Help! What do you think we should tell our guys? Is there a standard of etiquette around this issue?

A: If the picture is on his profile, he should take it down. If it's tagged on someone else's, he's allowed to de-tag himself. Your feelings should be more important than his ex's. And if he's worried about offending anyone, he should slim down his entire gallery of photos so that he's just keeping the bare minimum.
Really, I've never understood the whole I’m-putting-everything-on-Facebook thing. I know I'm an old lady in my 30s, but it's about respect and privacy, two things that never go out of style.

You're right. He's wrong. And your sister is right, too. You can't start dating new people and expect them to smile at your Facebook profile if it's basically a scrapbook of your dating history.

Tell you guy he should take down the pics -- so he doesn't seem like a jerk. And if he doesn't agree, forward him your friend's text. He’s obviously worried what people think of him. He should know how this looks.

And maybe tell him that he doesn't have to replace those pictures with 100 photos of you. Make some memories in real life. Not everything has to be part of the display.

Lulu: I don't see a problem with it at all. If facebook is the place you put all your pictures from your life, then obviously you will have a lot of pictures from every relationship. I don't think you should have a picture of you with your ex as your main profile pic, since that's the one that's supposed to represent you right now, but I don't see what's wrong with having outdated photos in your photo section.

Ashley: Maybe she should defriend him. Then she won't have to worry about it.

Netiquette: How to speak to your online friends and your GPS

Today's Miss Manners has two letters of interest: the first is from a person interested in IMing etiquette; the second is from a person who uses a GPS instead of people's directions.

The IMing letter-writer asks:

Dear Miss Manners:

When one signs onto any form of instant messaging and notices via one's contact list that someone else is already online, who has the ultimate responsibility to take notice? The person signing on or the person already there?

I take daily comfort from noticing that my brother must be alive and reasonably well as he is online, but he has never, ever, initiated a chat with me by something as simple as "Hi, sis, how are you?" I get stubborn and decide to wait, and after months, I will break down and initiate a chat with him. He almost always responds and we chat for a bit, exchange pics, news, etc. Then, months later, I break down and do it again.

Am I unreasonable to want him to evince an interest in me?

Also, what about friends who never reply when I initiate a chat? "Hi, how are you?" Nothing. And, then, there is the friend who almost always "hides" that she is online. If I send an offline message, she usually signs in and we chat.

Miss Manners replies:

Try picturing these people at their computers.

They're working, aren't they?

Well, that's what they claim. As you and Miss Manners suspect, some of them are playing games, some of them are shopping, and some of them are opening their little hearts to strangers.

But at any rate, they are all busy at something, and you are dropping in unannounced, so to speak.

True, the existence of this system invites one to do this, which is why Miss Manners finds it objectionable. Why can't you just take a chance that your friends will answer your offline messages when they are free? Or get in touch with them by other means?

In any case, Miss Manners does think it unreasonable to consider that failing to be ready to drop everything and chat at any time is an indication of callousness.

Lulu: Miss Manners definitely has a valid point that people who are on IM are also doing other things and you shouldn't take it personally when they don't initiate a conversation or don't always respond. However, I have also thought about the question of who has the responsibility to say "hi", the person signing on or the person already online, and I have an answer: clearly, it is the person signing on.

Ashley: Of course! When you sign on, you're looking at the other people online. But you don't keep looking for the entire length of time that you're signed on!

Lulu: And you don't necessarily get notifications about who is signing off and on. Even if you did, you might be in the middle of something, and not notice it, or notice it but not necessarily want to initiate a conversation.

Ashley: You certainly don't have to initiate a conversation with everyone who's online, or as soon as they sign on.

Lulu: Signing onto IM is not like going to a party, where you are rude if you don't say hi to everyone who is there.

Ashley: If I always got a ton of hellos with no content forthcoming, I would be very confused.

Lulu: Now, Miss Manners does also say that she finds IM objectionable, and that part I don't agree with. First of all, it's weird to find a certain piece of technology objectionable. Everything is optional! If you don't like to use it, don't use it.

Ashley: It's weird to apply certain rules to certain technologies; etiquette evolves with new technology, and it's okay to have different IMing etiquette than phone/in person/whatever.

Lulu: I do think there is definite IM etiquette and it's disconcerting when people violate it. I guess there are not a lot of means of communication where it's okay to just ignore the other person, which is maybe why she finds it weird?

Ashley: Yeah, IMing is a cross between talking and leaving a message, so it's got elements of both. You can talk if it turns out the person is around, but you don't get offended if it turns out you're just leaving a message.

Lulu: That's exactly it. It's not like dropping by unannounced and expecting the other person to drop everything and talk, not if you understand the rules. The rule is, they don't have to drop everything, or even be there! If anything, I guess it's like leaving your card with the butler?

Ashley: People who "hide" are more the leave-a-message types; others always reply but never initiate conversations; and others start conversations. All of them are using the leave a message ability to a certain (different) degree.

Lulu: Just because someone never initiates a conversation with you doesn't mean they don't want to talk or wouldn't, if you started a conversation. It just means they never have a conversation starter... or they are always online and doing other things and not paying attention to who comes and goes. Just be chill, I guess, is the general rule.

So our advice for the LW is: treat IMing like a voicemail message (i.e. speak if you have something to say, don't be offended if you don't get an immediate response), and then you can be pleasantly surprised if people respond immediately or start up a conversation with you on their own.

The GPS letter is in the same post:

...Now it has happened on several occasions, and with different passengers, that while the final destination may be unfamiliar, during some portion of the route, such as getting out of the city or passing through a nearby community, the passenger has argued with the GPS navigator by calling it stupid, asking me why I bought it in the first place, or telling me to throw it out the window.

One person actually sulked for an hour because I took the GPS directions instead of his. Another person told me he would rather get lost than rely on a silly box with a simulated voice.

If I am a passenger in someone else's car, I don't give directions unless I am asked. I feel that most drivers have their favorite ways to travel, and it is not up to me to question their decisions. I would like to know how to respond to people who develop adversarial relationships with my GPS navigator.

Miss Manners responds:

No etiquette query has yet come to Miss Manners from the GPS lady herself, but with the number of people who love or hate her, it's probably only a matter of time. All that cursing and courting she must endure, while only trying to do her job, must be hard to bear.

As captain of the vehicle, it is your duty to defend her. Miss Manners suggests a gentle: "Please don't be too rough on her. She's had a difficult day. We'll humor her and let her have her way."

Lulu: I like that. That's adorable.
Ashley: Yeees. I do talk to the gps: "Are you sure?"; "Ooh thank you!";  "You said right ahead not right right now! wauuuugh!"

Lulu: "WHY; WHY ARE YOU MAKING US TAKE LOCAL ROADS."

Ashley: It's weird because it talks. I like "recalculating" whenever you do something different. It's so judgmental. Especially because the recalculation is usually to do a u-turn.

Lulu: It's totally judgmental. I'm going to start doing that, when people do something I don't like.

Ashley: So you could say, "We should go to the store and then to your house." And when the other person disagrees and starts going home, and you say, "Turn right here. Turn right here. Turn right HERE."

Lulu:  "Hey, know what we should do next? Turn right here."

Ashley: "Turn this ship around!"

Lulu: Ship?

Ashley: I dunno. I like boats. Is that enough for the column? I want to get some sushi.

Lulu: Recalculating.

In conclusion, some people don't know their IMing etiquette, but we certainly don't know our GPS etiquette.