College visit

In today's Dear Abby, a girl wants to visit her boyfriend at college.

I am a 17-year-old senior in high school. My boyfriend, "Kenny," is 18 and goes to college five hours away. I'd like to visit him over the weekend sometime, but I need my parents' permission. Mom is OK with it, as long as I take the train (she doesn't want me driving that distance alone) and I pay for it. Dad is old-fashioned. He dislikes the fact that Kenny and I would be unsupervised in his dorm for a whole weekend, even though Kenny has a roommate.
We've been together for a long time and have been unsupervised before, but Dad's still uneasy. He treats me like I'm younger than my age. I'm almost 18 and have traveled alone by plane. I'm respectful to my parents and feel I deserve Dad's trust.

Kenny and I love each other, but having a long-distance relationship is difficult since we hardly get to see each other. Dad likes and approves of Kenny, but thinks it's "unnecessary" for me to visit him since we call, Skype and text each other often. How can I get my father to see my point of view?

Abby responds,

You probably can't - but your mother may be able to, which is why you should enlist her help in talking to your father for you. However, if that doesn't work, the alternative would be for Kenny to travel to visit you when he's able to get away for a weekend.

Abby is on a roll of giving rather permissive advice lately; she's not really helpful here, but she at least seems to imply that if it were up to her, she would let the girl go. Of course, Ashley and I are more strongly in the teen's corner, but so what else is new?

Lulu: Do you think there are logical arguments she could use to make her case, or is her dad just not going to change his mind because his thing is very emotional and it's about not letting his little girl go off and have sex?

Ashley: Well, I mean, has she had sex?

Lulu: She doesn't say. She sort of neatly avoids the issue, but I feel like it must be on her mind. The "We've been unsupervised before and nothing happened!" argument was always one my friends and I would pull out when we wanted to do sleepovers or trips with our boyfriends and girlfriends, with equal vehemence whether we planned to have sex or not.

Ashley: She's already tried the "the trust my word" approach and it didn't get her very far.

Lulu: Actually, it seems to be more like the "see, we totally won't have sex - the ROOMMATE WILL BE THERE!" approach. Which I feel is less effective than a straight-up, honest, "trust my word" approach. "Listen, I know you're worried that I'll have sex over the weekend, but I'm promising you that I won't; that's not what this is about; I just want to spend time with somebody whom I love and who lives far away."

Ashley: If she already has had sex, she might as well come clean and say she's not a virgin, so his worst fear has already come true. In fact, I might say that even if I were a virgin.

Lulu: I don't know that it's necessarily all about purity. If your parents think you are too young to have sex, but you have already had sex, they still want you to not have MORE sex.

Ashley: Really? Because I think the first time might matter way more.

Lulu: They don't want you to have babies. Sure, you got lucky SO FAR with zero babies...

Ashley: Then the argument is that you know what a condom is.

Lulu: Condoms break Ashley.

Ashley: You know what an abortion clinic is?

Lulu: Well, THAT'S not helpful. You getting an abortion is a worst-case scenario. Depending on the parents, they might even prefer you to have a baby at 17. But either way, we're playing out exactly the conversation she shouldn't have. I think she's cannily avoiding mentioning sex for a reason; she doesn't even want her parents to know it's on her mind.

Ashley: I'm just suggesting alternate routes. If her don't-mention-it / trust-me approach doesn't work, she has several options:

1) wait till she's 18
2) argue that she'll have safe sex
3) just get on the train and go

Lulu: There is something to be said for asking for forgiveness not permission, but it could be a huge shitstorm. She should exhaust all alternate routes first. Do you think the "I need to see what college life is like" approach will get her anywhere? Obviously, she can't claim it's her #1 reason for wanting to go.

Ashley: Yeah, not really. Maybe "I'll be in college in 6 months anyway"? If he doesn't think she can control herself over a weekend, how the hell will she do for the rest of her life?

Lulu: Yeah, I do think it's logical to be like, listen, I'm about to be on my own, baby steps are better than just suddenly being dumped from the nest. Also, I'll sleep on the couch! (I won't sleep on the couch.)

Ski Don't

From the January 3 Ask Amy:

Dear Amy: I'm a 15-year-old girl, and I have an excellent boy friend (not a boyfriend, but a friend who is a boy).

He is 17 and wants to take me skiing one weekend.

We have been friends for a very long time, and I know him well.

However, I am nervous that when I propose this short trip to my parents, they will be afraid that I will be attacked or something if I go with him alone. (We would be alone on this trip.)

Even though my parents don't know him, I trust him completely.

Even if he tried something, I am a black belt in tae kwon do and would be able to defend myself.

I really want to go on this trip, but my parents most likely won't consent. How can I prove to them that I am responsible and that they can trust a person who I trust?

Amy, of course, tells her to suck it up and listen to her parents.

Most parents wouldn't let their teen go away on a weekend trip alone with another teen (no matter the gender).

You are kidding yourself if you think a black belt in anything will serve to protect you in a vulnerable situation. In my view, running away might be the smartest defense if you are in trouble. But that's beside the point. You will win your parents' trust by being trustworthy. That means introducing them to your friends — especially this friend — and permitting them to do their job, which is to make decisions based on their (not your) best judgment.

Did she really think Amy would help here? What's surprising, though, is that we don't either--much.

Lulu: Dan savage answered a question like this one time in the podcast. The girl wanted to go camping with her friend who is a boy but not a boyfriend. Dan basically told the girl that she'll never get her mom's consent so either she has to stay home and sulk, or sneak out and get the trip but probably get caught.

Ashley: There are paths in-between. It kind of seems like maybe she should ask her parents, or his, to take them both on a ski weekend.

Lulu: Yeah. She's righteously angry about the presumption that she'll automatically hook up with her male platonic friend, but I think she's making too much of that part (maybe her parents are, too.) It's not because he's a boy. Most parents would not let a 15 year old go on a ski weekend with a 17 year old and no adults.

Ashley: I don't imagine she'd be allowed to go even with a group of teenagers--not at 15. 16, maybe. I'm trying to think when my parents let me do stuff. I went on vacation with my boyfriend's family when I was 16.

Lulu: Yeah. I took a friend on vacation with my family when I was 14. The family is key there. I bet lots of parents would let a teenager go away for the weekend with her friend's whole family. Where I agree with Amy is that it would help if the parents knew the friend, and possibly his family (or at least had a phone conversation with them). It throws some suspicion on the matter if you're dead set on keeping the parents from meeting the friend.

Ashley: I think I could have convinced my parents to let me go on a ski weekend with a big group of friends at 16.

Lulu: Possibly mine too. It never occurred to me. My friends and I mostly just went on a day trips.

Ashley: I went to Italy when I was 16.

Lulu: That was a school trip, though, wasn't it? Presumably there were chaperones. Not that four or five adults can look after 20 kids at all times, but plausible deniability!

Ashley: Yeah, but I think that was the line for me. Once I left for a week, then I could basically do whatever with whomever. So maybe she should start small and develop her independence over time. Adults present for this one, then a group of teenagers, then her with the guy.

Or, whatever, just sneak out. Have a friend say she's sleeping over. Of course, if she gets injured or something, that would be awkward to explain.

Lulu: There are a lot of ways to get caught, especially now that the parents know what she's planning. And then she's kind of fucked. They won't let her out again until she's 30.

Ashley: She could start small with that, too. Develop those skills over time.

Lulu: So, assuming she doesn't do that, for this particular trip, we're basically telling her the same as Amy: go with the no. Age a bit.

Ashley: No, we're telling her to submit a modified request. Change the trip so there are adults involved. Then she still gets to ski. Assuming it's skiing she wants.

Lulu: It's sort of unclear why she's set on going with just this guy. Whom she has no romantic interest in and plans to beat up if he tries anything.

Ashley: He probably has a car.

Lulu: But why not take along other friends?

Ashley: Because he invited her? I agree that she should.

Lulu: Why isn't he taking along other people on this trip? Is he interested in her? Does he have no other friends? Maybe he only has a two-seater. Or a motorcycle.

Ashley: It's becoming clear why she doesn't want her parents to meet him.