Return to the Valley of the Porn

Yesterday's Dear Abby was titled A debate on why men love porn. This is the kind of debate we enjoy!

DEAR ABBY: At a recent dinner party, the men and women got into a debate about porn. The men said men love porn because it shows women enjoying sex with abandon. We women protested that women who behave this way in real life are labeled "sluts" by both men and women.

Do men not realize this makes no sense? If you can't answer this, maybe your male readers can.

- No Fan of Porn

Abby responds,

DEAR NO FAN: I posed your question to a recognized expert - Larry Flynt.

He said that men love porn because men are aroused by the VISUAL. Then he added that women are more turned on by the written word, which is why torrid romance novels are so popular.

Lulu: Well, true. It's not really a response to the postulate. But I do like how Abby/Larry sidestep the whole debate, thus implying that the LW's postulate BS.

Ashley: Well, it is. She doesn't explain why women don't like porn, or why she doesn't.

Lulu: If i'm reading her correctly, her proposition is that if women in the real world were celebrated for visibly enjoying sex, she would enjoy porn?? Or, I suppose, that it's irrelevant why women do or don't like porn, but that men have a double standard by enjoying one set of behavior in porn and another in real people.

Ashley: I think she's just looking for excuses. But sure, let's take her at face value. She's concerned that what men like to watch bears little resemblance to what they like in real life. Well, that's certainly not limited to porn.

Lulu: Right, people saying they want one thing but actually wanting another isn't the fault of the depiction of the thing they want/don't want

Ashley: There are lots of things I like in TV that I would hate in a person. So even if they do only like slutty behavior in fiction... what's wrong with that?

Lulu: Like I like it when men cry on TV.

Ashley: Yeah, I like a lot of emotional drama. But real people in my life have a crying-in-front-of-me limit of about once per year.

Lulu: Yeah, I'd be like... okay, so... aaaanyway... (backs slowly out the door)

Ashley: I'd label them a sissy, to get it back to offensive gender stereotypes! So you can have a perception of women who enjoy sex as being sluts, which is a problematic assumption, sure, but there's no hypocrisy in liking that behavior in fictional women. It's not a double-standard, it's just a stupid single standard.

Lulu: Although I suppose pointing to that problematic assumption could seem like a natural response to the LW's men friends' defense that porn is good because it shows women enjoying sex, which seems like a pointed attempt to make it seem pro-woman, when it's really just that you like what turns you on.

Ashley: That's true. It does seem to be like, "well, no real life women enjoy sex, so I have to turn to porn." But that's the kind of answer you're going to get if you ask people about their hobbies--some bullshit that they come up with because the real answer is, "I dunno. I just like it."

Lulu: It's certainly the kind of answer you'll get if you ask people why they sexually desire what they do, because that is totally like, I don't know, I looked at a bunch of stuff until I got a funny feeling...
a funny TINGLY feeling. I liked it. So I did the same thing again.

Ashley: I actually find people who overanalyze their desires problematic. It seems like rationalizing after the fact in all cases. The reason it sounds hollow is because it is.

Lulu: Well, yeah, I mean, I feel like most of the reasons we give for everything is BS rationalization. "Why do you like that?" "Why did you do that?" "Why did you come here?" "Why do you want to work for LexCorp?"

Ashley: I WANT TO TOUCH HIS SHINY HEAD WHAT

Lulu: Which would turn into: "I'm looking for a challenging atmosphere where I can grow and demonstrate my ruthless leadership capabilities over a number of interesting minions." There's various theories that the process of rationalizing your desires makes you lose touch with your gut reaction, which is actually most indicative of your true wants. Like that cat poster study -- subjects who were asked to justify the reason for choosing one free poster over another made different choices, and were less satisfied with them. So the good news is that maybe if the person makes the guy explain why he likes porn enough, he'll get confused and stop liking it.

The Abby Game

Now it's time for a game! I'm going to read you a letter, and you tell me what Abby advised.

Feb 29: Should student spill beans on her prof's behavior?

I am a 19-year-old student taking courses at a community college. One of my classes is taught by a great professor who also works at a state college teaching other teachers.

After an evening class with him one night, I returned to the classroom because I forgot something and ended up walking with him back to the parking lot.

While putting stuff into my car I saw him get into another student's car. I waited a while without them realizing I was there and ended up seeing my professor and this student smoking weed and fooling around.

I feel angry and betrayed knowing he would put his career in danger. They are both consenting adults, but I don't know whether I should report it or not. What do you think?

Did Abby:
(a) Reiterate the problem but not offer advice
(b) Come down hard on the side of telling, scolding the LW for even considering staying silent
(c) Come down hard on the side of staying silent, scolding the LW for even considering telling

Answer:

Lesbian prom date

Ashley: Abby has an interesting column, and I don't agree with her response. It's a lesbian love triangle situation.

Lulu: OooOOOoooh!

Dear Abby from March 26:

I am a female high school junior with many friends I love and a boyfriend I care for very much. A number of my friends are gay.

One girl, "Belinda," is a year older than I am. She told me a couple of years ago that she is a lesbian. I have done everything I can to help her and support her. Last year, Belinda shared that she loves me more than as a friend. She would like to take me to the prom this year, and I would like to go with her.

Because I am already involved in a relationship with a boy, should I not be Belinda's escort? If I go, how do I tell my parents?

Abby responds,

It's time you have another talk with Belinda and explain to her that you like her very much as a friend, but not in the same way that she feels about you. Because you are already involved in a relationship, you and your boyfriend could (possibly) attend the prom with Belinda as a threesome -- but you should not be her "date." If this turns out to be the solution to your problem, I'm sure your parents would have no objection to it.

Lulu: Well, if the girl thinks it's a date, then I don't think she should go. On a date. With someone who is not her boyfriend.

Ashley: Right. Why does she want to go to prom with the girl if she's got a boyfriend? Does he not want to go?

Lulu: It's Belinda's prom. She's a senior, the LW and boyfriend are juniors.

Ashley: Oh, I see. So now Belinda is supposed to invite both of them?

Lulu: She can't. Tickets are sold in pairs. I don't think you're even allowed to bring more than one date from outside the senior class.

Ashley: Right, that's why Abby's thing doesn't make sense. Even if it's allowed, though, it's weird. It's definitely possible to go to prom as friends, so if it's like a support-your-lesbian kind of thing, then sure. I don't see why not. As long as Belinda's clear on the show-of-support date as opposed to a date-date.

Lulu: The fact that Belinda has confessed her love, though, makes me think that it's too fraught. Unless the LW actually does want to go on a date with her, which kind of seems possible. I mean, it kind of seems like maybe the LW likes Belinda more than her boyfriend.

Ashley: Eh, I think she likes proms more than not going to proms.

Lulu: Just saying. She can go as Belinda's actual gay date. I'm just throwing that out there. Or she can go as friends, if they're both clear they are going as friends.

Ashley: Agreed.

Lulu: And if that is the case, the way she tells her parents is, "We are going as friends."

Ashley: Sort of in either case, depending on the parents.

College visit

In today's Dear Abby, a girl wants to visit her boyfriend at college.

I am a 17-year-old senior in high school. My boyfriend, "Kenny," is 18 and goes to college five hours away. I'd like to visit him over the weekend sometime, but I need my parents' permission. Mom is OK with it, as long as I take the train (she doesn't want me driving that distance alone) and I pay for it. Dad is old-fashioned. He dislikes the fact that Kenny and I would be unsupervised in his dorm for a whole weekend, even though Kenny has a roommate.
We've been together for a long time and have been unsupervised before, but Dad's still uneasy. He treats me like I'm younger than my age. I'm almost 18 and have traveled alone by plane. I'm respectful to my parents and feel I deserve Dad's trust.

Kenny and I love each other, but having a long-distance relationship is difficult since we hardly get to see each other. Dad likes and approves of Kenny, but thinks it's "unnecessary" for me to visit him since we call, Skype and text each other often. How can I get my father to see my point of view?

Abby responds,

You probably can't - but your mother may be able to, which is why you should enlist her help in talking to your father for you. However, if that doesn't work, the alternative would be for Kenny to travel to visit you when he's able to get away for a weekend.

Abby is on a roll of giving rather permissive advice lately; she's not really helpful here, but she at least seems to imply that if it were up to her, she would let the girl go. Of course, Ashley and I are more strongly in the teen's corner, but so what else is new?

Lulu: Do you think there are logical arguments she could use to make her case, or is her dad just not going to change his mind because his thing is very emotional and it's about not letting his little girl go off and have sex?

Ashley: Well, I mean, has she had sex?

Lulu: She doesn't say. She sort of neatly avoids the issue, but I feel like it must be on her mind. The "We've been unsupervised before and nothing happened!" argument was always one my friends and I would pull out when we wanted to do sleepovers or trips with our boyfriends and girlfriends, with equal vehemence whether we planned to have sex or not.

Ashley: She's already tried the "the trust my word" approach and it didn't get her very far.

Lulu: Actually, it seems to be more like the "see, we totally won't have sex - the ROOMMATE WILL BE THERE!" approach. Which I feel is less effective than a straight-up, honest, "trust my word" approach. "Listen, I know you're worried that I'll have sex over the weekend, but I'm promising you that I won't; that's not what this is about; I just want to spend time with somebody whom I love and who lives far away."

Ashley: If she already has had sex, she might as well come clean and say she's not a virgin, so his worst fear has already come true. In fact, I might say that even if I were a virgin.

Lulu: I don't know that it's necessarily all about purity. If your parents think you are too young to have sex, but you have already had sex, they still want you to not have MORE sex.

Ashley: Really? Because I think the first time might matter way more.

Lulu: They don't want you to have babies. Sure, you got lucky SO FAR with zero babies...

Ashley: Then the argument is that you know what a condom is.

Lulu: Condoms break Ashley.

Ashley: You know what an abortion clinic is?

Lulu: Well, THAT'S not helpful. You getting an abortion is a worst-case scenario. Depending on the parents, they might even prefer you to have a baby at 17. But either way, we're playing out exactly the conversation she shouldn't have. I think she's cannily avoiding mentioning sex for a reason; she doesn't even want her parents to know it's on her mind.

Ashley: I'm just suggesting alternate routes. If her don't-mention-it / trust-me approach doesn't work, she has several options:

1) wait till she's 18
2) argue that she'll have safe sex
3) just get on the train and go

Lulu: There is something to be said for asking for forgiveness not permission, but it could be a huge shitstorm. She should exhaust all alternate routes first. Do you think the "I need to see what college life is like" approach will get her anywhere? Obviously, she can't claim it's her #1 reason for wanting to go.

Ashley: Yeah, not really. Maybe "I'll be in college in 6 months anyway"? If he doesn't think she can control herself over a weekend, how the hell will she do for the rest of her life?

Lulu: Yeah, I do think it's logical to be like, listen, I'm about to be on my own, baby steps are better than just suddenly being dumped from the nest. Also, I'll sleep on the couch! (I won't sleep on the couch.)

Extry, Extry: We Agree With Dear Abby

Sometimes we have little conversationlets about the day's advice that we don't bother posting because they are so short and we are so, so lazy. But I wanted to note this moment in history from last week, where we agree wholeheartedly with Dear Abby!

From Dear Abby's March 9 column:

I am a 50-year-old gay man. On New Year's Eve, there was a block party on the street I live on. My neighbors, "Tim" and "Marie," are a good-looking 30-ish couple. I was watching the fireworks when Marie sat down next to me and said, "Tim and I would like to get to know you better. How about we drop by for drinks some night after we put the kids to bed?" She said this while stroking my upper thigh with her hand.

I find the idea of being intimate with her husband appealing, but I have never "been with" a woman and I don't think I want to be. It seems to me the most prudent approach would be to pass on this opportunity, but how do I do it without offending or causing embarrassment for one of my neighbors?

Abby responds,

Does this neighbor know your sexual orientation? If the answer is no, just thank her and tell her you're not into threesomes. Because it has taken you so long to give her an answer, she probably won't be surprised that a liaison is not your cup of tea. However, if she does know, tell her with a wink: "Thanks for the offer -- I'm not into threesomes. But you can send Tim over anytime."

Ashley: You're right! That is what he should do!
Lulu: I know! I have nothing to add. "Send Tim over anytime": inspired.
Ashley: Marie probably just wants to watch anyway!

Keep 'em separated

Two letters today! And no thematic relationship between them.

First, a teenage girl in Dear Abby writes in about her boyfriend's odd request.

My boyfriend is pressuring me to take his camera cell phone with me into the girls' locker room and take pictures of the other girls with little or nothing on. He says it has always been a "fantasy" of his, and that if I really love him I'll help him fulfill his fantasy.

He promises to keep the pictures secret and says that what the other girls don't know won't hurt them. He offered to do the same for me and take pictures in the boys' locker room, but I'm not interested. I know it would be wrong to do it, and I wouldn't want someone secretly taking pictures of me.

He hinted that if I refuse he will look for another girl who will. I'm scared of losing him because I'm not much to look at, and he's the only boy who has ever shown any interest in me. I know you're not going to tell me to go ahead and do this, so I'm not sure why I'm writing, but I would appreciate any advice you can give me.

At least she acknowledges that she knows what Abby's answer will be. And we already know that we will agree, which is always disappointing to us. We like to be contrary.

Abby says:

I'm glad you wrote. If you do what this boy is pushing you to do, you could be thrown out of school. He will not be able to resist the urge to show the pictures to his friends - and possibly put them on the Internet. It would be a huge invasion of privacy and a breach of trust, and regardless of what he says, it will NOT bring you closer together.

If he truly cared about you, he would never ask you to do something that could get you into serious trouble. You could be accused of creating and distributing pornographic material, and there could be legal liability. The penalty you would pay isn't worth the "interest" he's showing in you. Run!

Lulu: So... I guess I disagree that it would be impossible for him to resist posting the photos on the internet. He's just going to masturbate to them. But it's still not okay to take pictures of girls in states of undress without their consent.

Ashley: Yeah.

Lulu: Also, how exactly is she planning to get away with photographing girls in the locker room? "Oh it's okay... I'm a girl."

Ashley: You pretend to be texting or something. It's hard to tell when a cell phone is pointed to take a picture.

Lulu: Mine makes a CLICK noise.

Ashley: You can turn that off.

[beat]

Ashley: Not that I know.

Lulu: Okay. Well, even if you don't think you'll get caught, it's pretty immoral and it seems like self-respect demands that you decline, EVEN IF you are ugly and your boyfriend is hot. Opposing viewpoint???

Ashley: Nope, I got nothing.

For the next letter, we advance to grownups in the workplace with today's Love Letters.

I had been dating a guy for about a year and we talked about moving in together when my lease was up this winter. He got scared back in August and decided that he needed to take a step back. Which is fine. We're both 27 and I'd rather him be sure than not sure. Granted, we've talked every day since his decision to take a step back, and we see each other on occasion. Although at times it doesn't seem romantic, I still have a little bit of a flame flickering for him. ...

Friday night he met me for a drink and a movie. The conversation over the drink was great. Things seemed to be going well and I was hopeful that we might be taking a step back in the right direction. I decided not to get my hopes up and talked myself into letting things progress naturally. Why push the subject if there's no subject to push yet, right? The drive home was also great and we talked about when we could see each other again. He was very active in communicating the rest of the weekend, which surprised me a little.

Fast forward to Monday morning. So he IMs me from "ABC Company," where he works, and we chat throughout the day. We made plans for the next week and mentioned an event he thought we would both like to attend in December.

Then, shortly after lunch, he told me he was interested in my company, "XYZ Company," which is ironically down the road from ABC. Needless to say, I felt like I was punched in the stomach. I know how miserable he is at ABC and that he would like it at XYZ. So I told him I would pass on his resume to the HR Director. He said he would put together his resume this week and send it over to me to pass along.

Here's what I'm thinking -- that this is the end of the chances of us getting back together. Do office romances really work in the long run? So what should I do? Do I actually pass along his very qualified resume or do I lie and say we're on a hiring freeze and continue on with our current situation? I know it sounds selfish if I lie but do I consider my feelings or his? What a mess.

Ashley: Here's the thing. You have to separate your work life from your relationship life. The question isn't how she would feel if he were working at XYZ, it's whether XYZ would benefit from having him work for it. There are people i would absolutely recommend to jobs that I would refuse to interact with socially. Is he a good worker? Then recommend him. I guess it's kind of a reverse way of thinking, but i think you're helping the company more than the guy. At least that's how I view recommendations.

Lulu: Out of curiosity, would you refuse to pass along the resume of someone who is kind of a slacker even if you do want to work with them?

Ashley: Absolutely.

[beat]

Lulu: Not that... that's... relevant.

Ashley: It's actually a simple question. Do you think the company would benefit from that person? Then recommend.

Lulu: Yeah, she's focusing on the wrong parts of the question. The office romance thing is moot. He wants to just be friends and/or coworkers. The relationship is over.

Ashley: Oh, definitely.

Okay, so the official answer: Meredith agrees that she needs to separate work like and love life, but she advocates a different approach.

I wouldn't worry about an office romance at the moment because I'm not quite sure you're in an out-of-office romance. Are you still together? How would you define your relationship, SBAR&MHP?

You have to be selfish. But you also have to be honest. Tell Mr. I'm-taking-a-step-back that you're a bit confused about the status of your relationship and that having him in an office down the hall won't help. He's more than welcome to apply for a job at ABC Company, but he shouldn't be asking you to facilitate. You're doing a lot for him -- stepping back, stepping forward, being a friend, being more than a friend. Let's be honest -- it hurts, right? Can he consider your feelings for a few minutes or more?

Ashley: I do agree that he's using her.

Lulu: For sure. Stepping back was breaking up, and it's awfully suspicious that he got friendly right before he asked for a favor. He does not want to get back together. He wants a job. He has trouble separating work and personal, too.

Ashley: But i don't necessarily think that's a deal breaker for recommending him. He's using her like an acquaintance. She's part of his network! I would also take an acquaintance to dinner and then ask for a favor.

Lulu: But it's unfair if he made it look like he was maybe getting back with her so she would view him more favorably. He probably knows she hopes to get him back.

Ashley: Does he? Maybe she just read into it. Either way, it doesn't affect her recommendation. He can be a good worker even if he's kind of an asshole.

Lulu: Though hopefully she won't have to work with him closely if she is still getting over the breakup.

Ashley: I guess she could always ask him for a referral to ABC in that case.

Lulu: Swapsies!

Cell Block J

Ashley: So people wrote in to Dear Abby re: father of girl with cell phone who told her to delete her texts if she doesn’t want him to see them. Unsurprisingly, they did not agree with us.

Lulu: Yeah, all those letters are like, you should totally check your kid’s cell phone. But it seems like they are advocating random checks, unannounced.

Ashley: Not the same as the original problem at all.

Lulu: I also don't believe that crap about how things are more dangerous now so you should value security over personal rights. All:

The world has changed with this technology, and the attention we pay as parents must change with it. I strongly urge the parents at my school to check their children's phones and computers regularly.

Ashley: It’s all so doom and gloom, and I don't like the security mentality at all, especially the police officer who wrote in. Yeah, he sees a lot of the bad stuff, but he's biased because he never knows the proportion of bad stuff to good stuff.

As a crime prevention officer, I regularly encourage parents to check a child's cell phone for bullying and sexting, most of which a child won't share with a parent. Especially if the child is the one who is using the phone to bully others, she certainly won't share her pictures with her parents. Most children are unaware that state laws have not changed, and children who send pornographic pictures of themselves to others can be charged with distributing child pornography and may have to register as a sexual predator for the rest of their lives.

Ashley: Oooh, nevermind, "crime prevention officer," not police officer. Seriously, it's a stupid law that you can be prosecuted for exploiting yourself; it's the law that needs to be changed, not the behavior.
 
Lulu: Right. Just because technology can be abused doesn't mean you shouldn't use it and I don't understand the mentality where you treat your kids like they're in maximum security prison until they're 18, because then they're just 18 year olds with the maturity of 12 year olds.

Ashley: Well, given the current imprisonment rates, maybe that's not the worst preparation...

Lulu: ha!

Ashley: It’s something like 11% of all men and 32% of black men are expected to spend time in jail, so... But it still doesn't explain policing the girls though. Girls don't go to prison.

Lulu: No, apparently they end up on child porn websites. I guess the idea of keeping their phones from them till they're 18 is that then they will go onto ADULT porn websites.

Ashley: Much better!

Lulu: I mean, the general lesson that you should think before you act is not limited to cell phone use and also impossible to teach.

Ashley: Thinking before I act has never been a strong suit, and I turned out juuuust fine.

Lulu: ...

Effective slacking with Lulu and Ashley

High school nerds are out speciality, and there's one in Dear Abby today.

DEAR ABBY: I'm a junior in high school and taking multiple advanced-placement classes. With all the homework we're assigned, I sometimes need to use lunchtime to finish assignments. My problem is my friends follow me into the school library and talk to me while I'm working. Their constant chatter is distracting and prevents me from concentrating on my assignments.

I don't neglect my friends. I spend hours outside of school with them every week. But I'd rather be left alone when I'm trying to work. My friends don't understand that I'm more focused on academics and long-term goals than my short-term social life.

How can I politely get them to leave me alone when I'm working?

Ashley: Do your homework at home. Problem solved.

Lulu: (a) How long is her lunch break? At my high school it was 20 minutes. How much can you get done in 20 minutes? (b) Isn't it nice to... you know... have a break? in the middle of the day? to... eat lunch? I bet her productivity goes way down in the second half of the day because she is so hungry.

Abby, of course, doesn't tell her to stop doing the extra work, but tells her to be upfront with her friends.

If you haven't told your friends plainly how you feel and clearly drawn a line, you shouldn't blame them for being clueless when they cross it. Tell them you need to concentrate when you're in the library and that they are creating a problem for you. Not only will you be helping yourself, you'll be doing a favor for other students who are trying to study and who are also being distracted.

Lulu: I do agree with Abby that the solution to "My friends don't understand that I'm more focused on academics and long-term goals than my short-term social life" is to, you know, tell them, I guess, but there's no way to say that without essentially say, "You people? I don't like you so much." "You guys, not priority for me."

Ashley: She might do better if she at least made it seem like she slacked off the night before. So she's not blowing them off for work she could do later, she's blowing them off for not working last night!

Lulu: Yeah, I did my fair share of pretending to have slacked more than I did in high school and college.

Ashley: I did not. I always slacked the most possible amount.

Lulu: I still don't see when she eats.

Ashley: During her other classes? But she should do homework during other classes.

Lulu: Right! Multitasking! Maybe she just doesn't like her friends.

Ashley: Maybe! I know I don't. (I don't know that.)

I don't drink; how come my friends don't ask me to the bar anymore?

Another drinking question--or rather a not-drinking question--in yesterday's Dear Abby:

Dear Annie: I am 19 years old and a sophomore in college. I have a large circle of friends who are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. Or so I thought.

I have never been one to drink or party, not because I looked down on it, but simply because it wasn't my scene. When I entered college, I made new friends who enjoyed going out and drinking every weekend. I thought I might be missing something, so I went along. After a semester of this, I realized that the partying could be fun, but I didn't much like the way I felt after a weekend of drinking. I preferred socializing sober.

About the same time, I also decided to improve my health with meticulously planned workouts and a strict diet that left no room for empty alcohol calories. I loved my new healthier lifestyle, but my friends did not. They began badgering me every weekend to drink with them and gave me a hard time if I refused to eat deep-dish pizza and onion rings.

After a month or two, they began excluding me from their plans altogether. I was hurt. I never condemned them for their choices and would never preach to them. I don't understand why I should be left out because I make different food and drink choices.

I don't want to ditch my friends entirely. It would be next to impossible to find a group of college students who don't behave the same way, and I don't want to live in isolation. How can I stick to my healthy lifestyle without my friends intentionally excluding me from their social lives?

Abby responds:

This is not an uncommon problem. There is tremendous peer pressure to drink in college, and most people are aware of the "freshman 15" pounds that many students pack on due to the junk food and irregular eating habits. We commend you for choosing a healthier path. But even without preaching, your friends may be uncomfortable around you. You are a walking reminder of their riskier choices.

Explain to them how hurt you are by the exclusion. But also look for new friends, perhaps in the gym or cafeteria or through university organizations.

Darnell: I wonder if she got excluded because she stopped going out with them, and is just sad that she can now no longer turn down their invitations. Usually after the twentieth invitation turned down because somebody doesn't really like to drink, you stop inviting them out to drink.

Lulu: True. She can't be hurt that they don't invite her if she never goes, or if when she does go, she complains and obviously doesn't have fun.

Darnell: And maybe she should stop being such a crybaby. "Oh my friends poke fun at my life choices!" It is called having friends, get used to it. Call them a bunch of alcoholic fatties, have a good laugh and move on.

Lulu: To the extent that I agree with Abby, it's only that she could maybe make some friends who share her interests more. It doesn't sound like she has a whole lot in common with them--that's the problem. I certainly don't think she is a "walking reminder of their riskier choices".

Darnell: The description of her workout and diet routine does not make her sound like a fun person. Meticulous planning and fun college times do not often go together.

Lulu: I don't invite you to beta read my fan fiction, but it's not because you are a walking reminder of my, uh, girlier, sexually deviant, nerdier choices.

Darnell: Right, and I don't invite you on my homeless killing sprees but it isn't because you are a reminder of my lost humanity and innocence. If she is a walking reminder of their riskier choices, it is because she is actually reminding them out loud of how she is making awesome choices and they are not.

Lulu: Even if she makes a conscious effort not to look down on them for not treating their bodies like temples or whatever, it still seems like she is making it clear that they are not as important to her as her rules. And that's fine, everyone has priorities, but she can't complain about it when they notice.

Darnell: Clearly she can! But yes, she shouldn't. You know the reality of this letter is going to be that her friends are worried because she is now anorexic. Instead of making fun of her for not eating fatty foods, they are just pleading, teary-eyed, for her to eat something.

Lulu: Maybe she should build some freebie points into her diet. So she can have like... one drink a month. That wouldn't be so bad, would it?

Darnell: No, that would ruin her diet forever.

Lulu: She knows she wants it. Everybody's doing it. But really, it does seem like her main problem is that she wants to hang out with them without doing the things they like to do. That seems like an impossible request.

Darnell: They never want to go on a twenty mile hike with a picnic made entirely of wheatgrass wah!

Lulu: That's the thing! Has she even asked that? This question is all about negatives--what she doesn't want to do, what they don't do. They're not going to randomly ask her to go to the ice cream social if the bar works for them. She's the one who has to suggest activities that would be acceptable to her. They might just be assuming that because she always turns down their invitations, she's not interested in them anymore, or they might just not know what to ask her to do that she would actually agree to. I don't think she should explain to them how hurt she is--not if she doesn't like mockery--but she should occasionally ask them to do something with her. Something specific.

Darnell: Right, go out to a movie or.... Other... stuff. That isn't drinking. That there is.

Lulu: The aquarium!!!

Darnell: Stop suggesting the aquarium!

Lulu: I like the penguins.

Darnell: I didn't want to bring this up, but I had a bad experience with a penguin in my youth.

Lulu: I initially read that as, "I had a bad experience with a penguin in my mouth."

Darnell: Well that is part two of the story. His little tuxedo was a lie, he was no gentleman.

The official acceptable text response window

Today's Dear Abby concludes with a simple quick question:

What is an acceptable time frame to receive a response to a question you send via phone texting?

And gets a simple quick response:

Although we live in a world where most of us seek instant gratification, the answer depends upon how busy the person you are texting is.

While I admire brevity (clearly I am incapable of it), I also like responses which give arbitrary solid answers. I posed the reader's question to Darnell.

Darnell: Infinite?

Lulu: Well, yeah, that's true! "Acceptable" is the weird word there, since it seems like this is a question from the original text-message-conversation initiator. I don't think they get to say what's acceptable for the other person.

Darnell: Like, at what point you should start screaming at your friend because they haven't responded to your text?

Lulu: But I still feel like there is a distinct time frame to be figured out here. Let's imagine this is somebody who had received a text, and wanted to know if it was too late to respond to it.

Darnell: Texts are weird - I have an example of this from last night.

Lulu: You have a text from last night?

Darnell: Hah, I guess I do! My friend sent me a text, but I didn't have my phone on me at the time. When I finally saw it, it was when I was going to bed, so I didn't feel like responding. Then by this morning it was too late, so I will never respond to that text.

Lulu: Exactly. At a certain point, it becomes much more unlikely that you'll respond, because you feel like you missed the window.

Darnell: If somebody doesn't respond to your question within four hours you are allowed to call them, how about that?

Lulu: Yeah. That's what the person wants, I think; just to know when it's okay to bug them again. Or when to give up.

Darnell: If you cultivate a habit of fake-angry-demands you can do it almost immediately. "Hey, Lulu!" beat, beat, beat, "FINE!"

Lulu: Yeah, I mean, only you can determine what you deem acceptable or unacceptable. And the four-hour rule we just made up is not a bludgeon to beat people with. It's not "unacceptable" to fail to respond within four hours--as Abby points out, the person may have a busier life than you, or even if they don't, you can give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are busy with something for any given four-hour period. Or just don't feel like responding yet. That's not a capital crime. But most people who text do check their phones daily, so if you want a window for your own peace of mind, I think you can assume that if you don't get a response within 12 hours or so, the conversation is over.

Darnell: And if you ask a question three times via text and they never respond you are either doing something wrong or need new friends.

Do not take on Ashley and Lulu in debate club

In today's Dear Abby, a high school freshman tries to decide on extracurriculars. This is totally our bailiwick.

DEAR ABBY: I'm a high-school freshman with a dilemma. I'm a good student and get A's in all my classes. I'm also an athlete. I play year-round softball and have started playing soccer for the high-school team.

My problem is, I took a debate class over the summer and really liked it. I want to join the debate team, but I am unsure if it would be piling too much on my plate for my first year.

I'll be carrying one honors class in addition to two above-grade-level classes. Debate practices are held after sports practices two days a week for one to two hours, so they wouldn't directly conflict with anything except homework time.

Do you think I'm overestimating how much I can handle in extracurricular activities this year?

- Too Ambitious? in Oregon

DEAR TOO AMBITIOUS: The fact that this is causing you concern could be an indicator that it is too much.

That's why, before making up your mind, you should discuss this with your parents as well as your guidance counselor at school.

Lulu: Nope!

Ashley: Not even a little bit.

Lulu: Negatory.

Ashley: Wait, are we talking about Abby's advice, or answering the LW's question?

Lulu: Both. First of all, "ask your parents" is such a blow-off answer that I can't believe she's even running the column, if she's that stumped. Second, no. It's not too much.

Ashley: That's what I meant. Oh noes, one honors class. Poor baby.

Lulu: Yeah. This kid seems like a geek, and for a geek, he is severely overestimating the difficulty of high school. The fact that he's worried isn't a sign that he's right; it's a sign that he's a worrier, which is more indication that he's a geek! Look: a sufficiently motivated geek can pretty much do every club. Maybe not if they are held at the same time, but maybe even then. Since the practices for sports and debate don't conflict, it means they're designed so you can do both, in which case you can definitely do both. You don't start questioning whether it's too much until you have to break nine different rules in order to get your schedule lined up.

Ashley: Even then.

Lulu: And homework is nothing to worry about. Also, homework is boring! Why would you miss out on doing something you enjoy so you can devote more time to something you don't enjoy?

Ashley: Debate club should teach you the skills to get out of homework.

Lulu: Seriously.

Ashley: But before joining debate club, I'd switch to all honors classes.

Lulu: Agreed. The hardest classes are not that much harder than the easy classes and they are more fun because there is more time on the material and less time on basic discipline.

Ashley: Or at least less busywork which takes more time. Nothing like handing in your notebook every week. I had to do that for psych class in high school: hand in my notes for the class. To make sure I was taking them.

Lulu: The thing is, it is easy to quit things if you get overwhelmed. Why make the decision now? Try it out. Even if you fully believe you will drop something, if you sign up for everything to start, the decision about what to drop will be informed by what is actually the most fun.

Ashley: Just do everything. People should have the Starbucks strategy, especially in high school: If you can handle the current load, keep adding stuff.

Lulu: Until the market is saturated?

Ashley: Precisely. You never know how many Starbucks is too many until you reach unprofitability.

Lulu: The other disheartening part of the advice given is that I can almost guarantee a guidance counselor would also tell the student to not to overextend himself, and I really believe that's bad advice! Isn't it better to scale down because of a real reason--"I felt overwhelmed"--than a feared reason--"I was afraid I was going to feel overwhelmed"? Feeling overwhelmed isn't like death: it's temporary and reversible! You don't have to anticipate it. Be limited by real constraints, not imagined ones! Fly, little bird!

Ashley: Why do you always say that? You know we give advice to humans, right, and not to birds?

Lulu: Oh. That makes the debate club I was imagining much less adorable.

Roommate sex and gay teen bro code

Darnell: Back to being a commenter. Terrible.

Lulu: There is a drunk roommate drama in Dear Abby today, too.

Darnell: My wheelhouse! She is being un... used... for storing wheels?

Lulu: Our usual advice won't work, though. They already banged.

DEAR ABBY: I have gotten myself into a "pickle" and I don't know how to get out of it.

I rent a house with two roommates (both males) and have always followed a strict rule of not dating roommates or co-workers. One night, I came home after having a few drinks with friends. One of my roommates was up and we started talking. Then he started kissing me. I wasn't thinking clearly, and didn't object when he trotted me off to my room.

I do like him, but only as a friend. There are no sparks for me as there are for him. I don't want this to happen again, but I don't want to hurt him, either. In an ideal world, I'd like to remain friends and roommates, not lovers. Do you have any suggestions?

- Can't Believe I Broke My Rule

in Florida

DEAR CAN'T BELIEVE: Yes, I do. You need to quit drinking or institute another "rule" that you'll stop at two.

Inform your amorous roommate that in the cold sober light of day you regret what happened and don't want to repeat it. It won't "hurt" him; it will let him know where things stand, and it's important that he get that message. If you do remain roommates, maintain some distance - and don't come home "pickled" again because you know what could happen if you do.

Darnell: Dear Abby is telling girls who get drunk and sleep with guys that they might not when sober to stop drinking. I no longer like Dear Abby.

Lulu: Does the girl's description of what happened seem insanely passive to you, even for a "I was so wasted" story?

Darnell: Also "having a few drinks" is a specific phrase that does not mean getting wasted.

Lulu: Come on, the drinking already gives you plausible deniability. You can just say, "I was drunk and I banged him."

Darnell: It does make it sound weirdly rapey.

Lulu: Hm. Yeah, it's unclear what happened--if she is so embarrassed she's attributing everything to him, or if he was like, "Finally, her defenses are weakened! I shall press my advantage!" She still likes him "as a friend," so it kind of seems like the former? But who knows?

Darnell: Maybe her rule is stupid and she actually does like that guy, which is why she banged him. Alcohol isn't actually magical bangin juice. Especially if you already know the person. A stranger you might get a beer-goggled opinion of pretty easily, but your roommate and friend, eh.

Lulu: So you think she likes him, but is really embarrassed to like him for some reason?

Darnell: I want to know if he has begun courting her. Or if she is like, "Oh no no no he thinks we are dating now oh no!" and he is sitting in his room going, "I sure did like having sex, I wonder what's on TV?"

Lulu: She says there are sparks for him, so maybe he has begun brining her flowers and whatnot, and she is like, auuuuuuugh.

Darnell: She says there are sparks for him without providing any corroboration other than that he gave her the ole sausage... Oh, wait, maybe we are overthinking. What if the sex was bad? That would explain everything, right?

Lulu: Oh! I can't believe we didn't think of that sooner. That's what "no sparks" means!

Darnell: We are slow on the uptake today.

Lulu: So Abby's advice is actually fine except that I don't think her getting drunk again would tempt her to repeat the experiment.

Darnell: I don't have a problem with the other half of her advice. The "you made a mistake whilst drunk therefore stop drinking forever" part is dumb.

Lulu: The next letter, the high school drama, is super cute.

DEAR ABBY: I am a girl in high school and have a friend, "Joey," who is gay. Joey saw another guy, "Eric," who he thought was cute, and he made me go over and ask Eric's friend if Eric is gay. His friend told me he is straight.

Eric lives in my neighborhood and we became good friends. He has asked me out and I would say yes, except that Joey said he likes him. Joey has never spoken to Eric and only likes him in an "appreciating" sense. And of course, there's the fact that Eric isn't gay.

What should I do? Does the "girl code" apply to your gay friends, too?

- Conflicted in the South

DEAR CONFLICTED: With the "girl code," girls agree not to date men another girl has her sights set on - theoretically, because there is the possibility that he can be snagged if there's no interference. But in a case like this, where a gay person "appreciates" someone who is straight, the chance is remote to nonexistent. Out of consideration for Joey's feelings, talk with him about this. I'm sure he will appreciate your concern for his feelings - and give you his OK.

Lulu: And actually I agree with Dear Abby's advice to the high school girl too. She is on a roll today! The LW does needs to talk to Joey before she agree to go out with Eric, because I feel like he would be hurt if he found out about it after the fact.

Darnell: I agree with her too, with the addendum that even if the gay friend does not approve, you can still do it. Girl/guy code does not allow you to call dibs indefinitely. Especially if you fail to make a move!

Lulu: Yeah. I actually think it's in Joey's best interest for the girl to date Eric.

Darnell: That is how he will find out that he has been secretly gay this whole time?

Lulu: Well, just in case! In any case, it gives Joey an excuse to hang out with Eric, not that I think he should try to steal him away, but if he does ever develop an interest in a guy, it's more likely to be somebody that he's already friends with. Alternately, getting to know him better might make Joey realize he doesn't like Eric that much after all.

Darnell: Then we'll get a letter from him in a month. "Dear Abby, I had a few drinks and slept with my best friend's formerly straight boyfriend, but there are no sparks."

Designated driver drama, with special guest Darnell!

Darnell: Can I be Ashley this week?

Lulu: Oh thank god. I am so alone. Also, there were 2 letters about drunkenness in Dear Abby yesterday.

Darnell: Oh boy, that is my goddamn wheelhouse!

Lulu: Here's the letter and response:

DEAR ABBY: A few weeks ago, I met a group of friends at a local pub. "Charlie" was the designated driver. As the evening progressed, I noticed Charlie was drinking beer. When I mentioned it, he said he'd had only three. Then he insisted he was fine and "it was only beer."
I tried to explain the danger of driving while "buzzed" and told him I'd walk home. Charlie then became insulted that I didn't trust him to know his limits. He said I should relax and quit being so uptight.

A few days later, some of my friends told me I had caused "unnecessary drama" that night and that my standards for the designated driver were "unrealistic." They also said that Charlie wasn't drunk and was totally capable of driving. But the fact remains, our designated driver wasn't sober, and I wasn't comfortable getting into a car with him.

I voiced my opinion; now I'm being punished for it. Did I judge Charlie too harshly?

- Values My Safety, Davis, Calif.

DEAR VALUES YOUR SAFETY: Not in my book, and not in the one published by the California Department of Motor Vehicles. In its California Drivers Handbook, under the section titled "Designated Driver Program," it lists the requirements for someone to be a designated driver. Among them: "Must abstain from consuming alcoholic beverages for the duration of the outing." That means not drinking anything with alcohol in it. Zilch!

You were right to speak up. In the future, if you decide to socialize with these folks, arrange to meet them. And if the location is not within walking distance, take a cab.

Darnell: "It's only beer" is the worst excuse ever.

Lulu: You can't get drunk off beer! It's like water. Or wine coolers.

Darnell: I think this theory needs scientific testing. I'll just hop in my time machine and perform those tests last night. ... Nope, beer works.

Lulu: I mean clearly the guy was incorrect, what I'm wondering is how much "drama" the letter writer actually created. Are her* friends objecting to her walking home because the designated driver was drinking, because that's lame, or are they objecting to her delivering a 20-minute monologue on the subject?

[Ed. note: We assume the LW is female for no real reason.]

Darnell: The problem with advice letters in general is that they rarely tell the part of the story that might make the LW look bad.

Lulu: Although, given what she reports her friends actually saying, it seems like they were defending the drunk guy and being incorrect about the role of a designated driver. They don't seem to have identified her delivery as the problem with the message.

Darnell: Yeah, this is one of those situations where I want to be against the LW but can't really justify it. It seems like, barring the possible diatribe, she behaved pretty well.

Lulu: So it sounds like she needs better friends.

Darnell: That is my default and always correct answer, but I try to take my time getting to it. This feels so close to being a non-issue that it is kind of baffling me. I am a guy who will have a few drinks and drive, and I believe that people can know their limit safely. But it is also okay to see somebody drinking and say that you don't want them to drive you. Your friends saying that expecting a designated driver to not drink at all is unrealistic, that is just goddamn stupid.

Lulu: Yeah, I'm trying to see why the friends got upset that she walked home, and I can't. Unless she tried to give them grief about it, how does it hurt them? Sure, walk. Why not?

Darnell: The bit about the Drivers Handbook I find fascinating as well. There is documentation around how you have to be a DD?

Lulu: Yeah, I thought it was just a term for the driver. Who is designated.

Darnell: The definition being the poor shmuck whose turn it is to have no fun.

Lulu: I don't see how it can be an official thing if it's all entirely informal. I mean, how can the designated driver be either tested or recognized by the state. You don't get a medal.

Darnell: Maybe in California you can get some kind of DD tokens to trade in for prizes.

Lulu: Free beer.

Darnell: I was thinking an arcade prize counter at the DMV: "I've been the DD twice so I can get the tiny squirt gun or the friendship bracelets!"

Lulu: This is a great idea.

Darnell: The awarding of tokens might be problematic, but that is for the pencil pushers to figure out. We're idea people.

Lulu: I love being an idea person. It is no work.

Darnell: It's a pretty great life.

Tune in next time (tomorrow?), when the chat about this same day of Dear Abby continues!

Two semesters from retirement

Today's Dear Abby finds another question from a parent worried about their irresponsible child, college, and how much to pay for.

DEAR ABBY: Our son, "Jason," has decided to leave college with only two semesters left. He says he's doing so in order to pursue his love of river guiding and outdoor programs.

While he was in school, his father and I paid for his cell phone, health and car insurance, and his rent because we wanted his focus to be on his studies. We also paid his tuition. Jason has a part-time job. Now that he has decided to leave school, our view is that he should find another job and assume these expenses.

My husband and I disagree about who should pay for any future education that Jason wants. If he goes back to school, his tuition will be paid for, says Dad. I think we would be enabling him if he thought we were always standing by to foot the bill.

We are heartsick that Jason has made this decision, but his mind is made up. Any advice from you would be appreciated.

- Unhappy Mom in Mississippi

We don't really disagree with Abby's advice, but as usual, we find t a little short and unsatisfying. In its entirety:

I agree that Jason should shoulder the responsibility for his living expenses. However, do not make any hard and fast decisions about his tuition while you are still angry at him. This situation will surely play out. If and when Jason decides to complete his education, that would be the time to discuss the matter of tuition.

Lulu: It's like with our Frivolous Wastes of Money column: the parents are considering withholding something they want the son to have as a punishment for the son. They're only hurting themselves.

Ashley: It's two lousy semesters. He should just finish the degree. At the same time, it's two lousy semesters' worth of money; a lot, but not compared to what they've already spent.

Lulu: I suppose they think he will make the calculation and realize he should stay in school for free (to him) rather than put it off and have to pay for it himself later. But if he were making decisions according to the calculations, he would just wait the eight measly months to become a forest ranger.

This is why I do think that kids should help pay for college, if their parents do (ie. if they don't get a full scholarship): so they have some personal investment in the cost-benefit analysis. But in this case, I don't think it's just that he's being selfish with the money because he thinks it's infinite. He doesn't seem to want the degree at all. Even if it were his own money, he wouldn't necessarily consider it worth his time and attention.

Ashley: I mean, at some level, if you know you won't use it, it's best not to proceed: sunk costs and all that. But does that really apply to a college degree? It seems like it'll never hurt to have one. A lot of jobs require a bachelor's in anything.

Lulu: Because of classism!

Ashley: For him specifically, it seems like he could use, for example, a BS in Environmental Science.

Lulu: I guess he just feels he doesn't need it. He can do what he wants without it.

Ashley: I can respect the choice not to go to college in the first place, but what I don't respect is if you go, almost complete it, and then drop out. A big waste of time and money, just because you can't make up your mind or you let people push you around.

Lulu: A lot of teenagers don't know their own mind. Maybe he didn't know he would hate college until he got there. It would be nice if you could make that decision snappily, for the sake of your parents' bank accounts, but I can see how it would go wrong. Kid says he wants to drop out to save the parents money, parents say, no, no, don't worry about the money, I just want you to get the degree. Repeat. I respect this kid more because he has a plan - half-baked as his parents may find it.

Ashley: Sure. But what he's doing is not time sensitive. He can't do river guiding next year?

Lulu: I kind of find his impatience charming because it shows he's enthusiastic about this.

Ashley: I don't find it endearing when people drop stuff that will help for sure in order to do something they're "passionate about". I find it boring and immature.

Lulu: Well, there's levels. You can't do it all the time.

Ashley: There are definite points at which it makes sense to change stuff, and if you want to change stuff between those points, there better be a damn good reason, especially when the next point is very close.

Lulu: You don't understand! He's suffocating in this ivory tower of academia!

Ashley: Yeah, and soon he will be suffocating under the pressure of rent payments. How's he going to get out of that one?

Lulu: We'll see. I think he'll be okay. Fly free, little river guide. Either way, his motives are irrelvant. He's made his choice. The parents are asking what they should do.

Ashley: It seems that the husband wants to extend the offer of free tuition if he ever decides to go back and the wife doesn't. So split the difference? Half-tuition? I think it's a moot point because I don't think he'll go back.

Lulu: That's what Abby was saying, too. Address that if and when he decides to go back.

Ashley: Yeah, but a lot of people don't want a possible fight hanging over their heads. She wanted to have it settled now. You can always review your decision.

Lulu: So, sure. Half tuition. But it's probably moot.

Ashley: Moot!

In which Lulu monologues about how tattoos are equal to husbands

I know we said we wouldn't do wedding questions, but today's Dear Abby is maybe also a tattoo question?

I'm a 36-year-old woman who has a 25-year-old friend I love like a little sister. Because of that connection, I felt compelled to ask her to be a bridesmaid in my upcoming wedding. After she agreed, I overheard her mention that she would be getting a large tattoo on her arm. Because she knows how I feel about visible tattoos, I asked her if she'd wait six months until after the wedding. She and the matron of honor are scheduled to wear strapless, knee-length gowns.

She proceeded with the tattoo and now has half an arm of full-color design. I don't want her to ruin my wedding or the photographs. I would feel guilty if I had to force a jacket or sweater on her or my matron of honor, especially if the day is unseasonably hot. What should I do?

Abby is mostly sympathetic.

If your "little sister" cared as much about your feelings as you seem to about hers, she would have postponed getting the tattoo as you requested. Too bad she didn't.

However, weddings are more than the procession and the picture album. They are about loving friends and family and the joining of two people who intend to build a life together. If you're worried about the pictures, pose "Sis" so her "canvas" can't be seen by the camera.

Lulu: I don't understand how a bridesmaid having a tattoo would ruin the wedding pictures. Wedding pictures are a record of who was there, right? She was there, and she has a tattoo.

Ashley: I was at a wedding recently where several bridesmaids had large green tattoos which did not go well with the purple strapless dresses. It was more a color coordination issue, not a tattoo-specific issue.

Lulu: There will always be color coordination issues. What if one of the bridesmaids has the wrong color hair? Or an unsightly rash? Or their body type is wrong for the dress? You can't dictate that people themselves must go perfectly with the wedding décor. I know the tattoo is optional, but I reject the idea that guests, even wedding party members, have a responsibility to make all their personal appearance choices revolve around the wedding for six months or more. Having a wedding is optional, too. It's a major, life-changing, deeply personal option, but so is getting a tattoo. I don't see why one takes precedence over the other.

Ashley: I mean, I probably wouldn't have gotten the tattoo. If you're close enough to someone that they want you to be in their wedding, presumably you'd do them other favors as well, such as waiting a few months to get a tattoo, even if you think it's an irrational request.

Lulu: That's true. Friends honor friends' irrational requests within reason, but you should also not get bent out of shape about perfect wedding pictures. If the bridesmaid loves the friend, she should do her a favor, but if the friend loves the bridesmaid, she should accept her as she is--which is now a person with a tattoo.

Ashley: That said, I can see several circumstances where the tattoo itself is the problem. If it's a swastika, for example.

Lulu: Point.

Ashley: Especially in a non-coordinating color. Nothing worse than a non-coordinating swastika.

Lulu: How could you get a red swastika when you know my wedding colors are maroon?

Ashley: All of them?

Lulu: Yes. Maroon and pale maroon.

It turns out that after all that discussion, we basically agree with Abby. Huh.

Go fish

From today's Dear Abby:

DEAR ABBY: How do you respond to an overweight person who says she's fat? Or a short person who says she's short? Or to anyone else who points out a true physical flaw that goes against today's ridiculous standard of beauty? I am in a sorority and this happens all the time.

Please don't tell me to say that their personalities are beautiful -- even if it's true -- because what these girls want to hear is that they are physically beautiful. -- THE UGLY TRUTH FAIRY

Abby's advice to her was to find some other praiseworthy physical qualities in these girls:

The girl with the weight problem may have beautiful skin or a fabulous head of hair. And the short girl may have such beautiful posture that people regard her as graceful. Get it?

This earned some snorts and eye-rolls from us but as you will see, our own advice is much, much worse.

Lulu: The classic problem of the self-put-down-er. It's a tight spot, because you can't agree, but you also can't contradict them, because it's not true and they won't believe you. But it would feel so false to me if I was like "I'm fat" and someone were like "But you have a fabulous head of hair!"

Ashley: Yeah, there's no way I could say that. And it just encourages that behavior--putting yourself down to fish for compliments. That's bad! Don't train that! I understand why she says that, but I don't think it's helpful in the long-term, not if you don't want to keep that up forever and ever.

Lulu: I wouldn't either, but of course, my instinct, to say, "Yeah," or "We all have our cross to bear," or "Anyway how bout them Knicks" can make people be mad at me.

Ashley: My response is to look as if they've interrupted something important, and be like, "okaaaay?" But again, then they stop talking to me forever. Which, if they want to talk about how fat or short they are, I'm okay with.

Lulu: I guess this girl needs to get along with her sorority sisters.

Ashley: True. I guess she could offer simple solutions that they must have considered already? "I'm fat." "Try a diet." "I'm short." "Wear heels."

Lulu: That feels like agreeing to me.

Ashley: No, no, it's not making a judgment. It's just acknowledging their perception, and offering solutions. Like I sometimes do with you. "I'm hungry." "Have a cookie." "Oooh."

Lulu: I don't really think straight when I'm hungry.

Ashley: That is part of the truth. I mean, really, you can just be like, "It doesn't matter" because it doesn't. Who cares if you're short?

Lulu: Another tactic is to contradict by making unnecessarily effusive compliments. "You're not too fat! I think you're beautiful. I wouldn't kick you out of bed."

Ashley: Brilliant. How about "I wouldn't kick you out of bed" as an answer to every comment?

Lulu: I am not sure this will help her get along with her sorority. On the other hand, Sappho was Greek.

Ashley: Make them uncomfortable to talk about their body around you!

Lulu: She might have to have sex with some women. But that is just the price you pay when you listen to our advice, and I am okay with that.

Ashley: She can do it in a jokey way. It's still impossible to respond. What can they say?

Lulu: I think context is important, too. She could be oversensitive on what she is counting as fishing for compliments. It's annoying when someone just complains, "I'm fat!", and I kind of feel like if they're doing that it's okay to be mean. But I can see also see the letter-writer getting uncomfortable if they're saying it in reference to something else, like an explanation: "Oh, no, I'll stay over here, I'm too fat to pose in the wet t-shirt contest." In that case, I would be annoyed if someone used an obvious counter-fishing tactic, because I wasn't fishing; I was just trying to communicate.

Ashley: That makes it easier, though. Just take what they say at face value, and address the actual situation. "Of course, no one HAS to do the wet t-shirt contest."

Lulu: Right. It doesn't matter what the reason is.

Ashley: I wouldn't do one cause my boobs aren't big enough, for instance.

Lulu: I choose not to comment.

Ashley: Say, "I wouldn't kick you out of bed." SAY IT!

Cheating vs tutoring

Yesterday, Dear Abby posted reader responses to a May 29 letter from a girl who was helping her boyfriend with his classwork.

DEAR ABBY: I'm an "A" student, but my boyfriend, "Rory," has a difficult time in school, so he often comes over for help. [...]

I don't give Rory the answers to questions, but I do give him "hints" and tell him where he's likely to find the answers in the textbooks. I always check that the answers are correct. With his math homework, I tell him each step he needs to take, but he actually does the math himself and then I check for accuracy. If he needs to write an essay, I suggest what he might want to write and help him with some of the edits.

My sister thinks what I do goes far beyond help, and that I'm enabling him to cheat. She feels that while it may help his grades now, I am doing him no favors in the long run.

Lulu: Cheating! We love cheating issues.

Ashley: I know!

Dear Abby doesn't give a firm ruling on the cheating issue, but she does tell the letter writer to back off ("When you suggest topics for your boyfriend's essays, then edit them... the teacher won't see where he needs to strengthen his English skills"). Yesterday, readers pointed out that an easy way to tell if he's actually being benefited is to find out if his test grades improved; presumably, she can't do those for him (and I feel that if she could and did, it would have been mentioned in the "am I cheating?" question.)

Lulu: It's sort of weird that people seem to be reserving their "is it cheating?" judgment until they know if his test grades improved. Like, it's tutoring if it's effective, and cheating if it's not?

Ashley: But if his paper grades and homeworks are improving, then it matters whether his tests are as well, because the skills should be transferable.

Lulu: Right, but--

Ashley: Some people are bad at tests.

Lulu (tragically, like a wounded bat): Yeah.

Ashley: But it's not a bad assumption, at least in math.

Lulu: But she could just be a bad tutor. He forgets as soon as he leaves her house.

Ashley: Then she should stop, because it's ineffective. Ask the teacher for help.

Lulu: Or she could learn tutoring techniques. Google it, get a book, join a tutoring group if they have one at her school. I guess I'm wondering what her goal is. Does she want to help him learn, or help him pass? She doesn't really say. If she just wants to help him pass, she might as well just cheat.

Ashley: True.

Lulu: Not that--

Ashley: We're not advocating cheating.

Lulu: Cheating is wrong.

Ashley: Wrong!

Lulu: Wrong, and bad. Anyway, as the A-student, she's got more to lose if they get caught.

Ashley: Teachers always suspect the girlfriend.**

Lulu: Maybe she wants to help him learn, and he just wants to pass.

Ashley: Ha ha. That does seem likely.

I know from trying to tutor kids myself that students have a vast arsenal of ways to get out of actually doing any work when you're there to help them--even when they theoretically want to learn. Staring at you blankly until you provide an answer for them, for example. The writer needs to either commit to helping him learn, in which case she's doing too much of the work herself and needs to get him more engaged; or she needs to admit to herself that she's okay with cheating and do the work herself, since it would be easier (this is not the recommended avenue); or she needs to wash her hands of Rory's grades. It just seems like her current methods are a lot of work and inefficient no matter what she wants to do.

* again, it could be a boy! we don't know! but since s/he shares a room with a sister, I'm assuming female.

** One of the reader responses from yesterday:

I used to teach at the university level. For 20 years I watched this happen. Never once was it the boyfriend "helping" the girlfriend. If we got two essays on the same topic, it was always the girlfriend who had written it, while the boyfriend who "studied with her" or "used it as a model" ended up handing in a distorted version of the same paper -- same quotes, same structure, reworded sentences. The boyfriends were slacking off; their girlfriends were doing the work.

I have talked about this with other professors; only one could cite a single exception to this rule. Thank you for telling that young woman to stop doing his homework and please, Abby, let your readers know the issue is systemic.

Ashley: I CALL FOUL: it's a liberal arts prof.

Choosing the college that's right for you

Today Ashley and I address a topic of unnecessarily overarching importance to many young advice seekers: choosing the Right College For You.

From Annie's Mailbox, May 22, 2007:

Dear Annie: I am 17 years old and going to be a senior in high school in the fall. Pretty soon, I will be making some very important decisions about my future and choosing where I want to go to college. I get nearly straight A's and could probably get into most of the places I plan to apply to. Here's my dilemma:

My boyfriend of almost two years is already in college and wants me to go to the same school he does. His college is an OK school, but nothing spectacular, and I feel I could do a lot better. I looked at several of the colleges near his, but frankly, none of them appeals to me.

I want to be with my boyfriend because we've already been apart for the past year and I miss him. What should I do?

Annie, of course, tells the writer to forget the boyfriend and pursue the very highest level of education possible. And while we understand Annie's point--the relationship is not likely to make it past Thanksgiving of freshman year whether she goes to his school or not, and What College You Went To is forever--we question the givens (i.e., that What College You Went To really matters.)

Ashley: Look, I went to a school to be with my boyfriend, and even though we broke up in the first year, it was still the best choice for me.

Lulu: You met me!

Ashley: Aside from that. Sometimes the worse school is the better choice.

Lulu: You get out of classes what you put into them--whether it's Harvard or Community College of Bumblefuck. You can have a great or a terrible academic experience anywhere.

Ashley: Right, and the instructors at smaller/less prestigious schools are often more engaged than the hardcore academic professors.

Lulu: On the other hand, it seems kind of like she's made up her mind that, for whatever reason, she doesn't want to go to her boyfriend's school, and she just wants validation. After all, she wrote into Annie.

Ashley: Her reasons for not wanting to may go away when it's a difference between "free college education" and "$100k in debt." Look, if you want to study engineering, and you get into MIT, Stanford, or CalTech, you go, no questions asked. But other than that, it just doesn't matter.

Lulu: Right, or RISD for art.

Ashley: Suuure. Art.

Lulu: I think leaving it up to money is honestly the best strategy, because it's emotionally neutral. It's hard to regret saving thousands of dollars. The school doesn't have to be so wonderful that it beats the joy of being near the boyfriend, and the boyfriend doesn't have to be so wonderful he's worth turning down Brown--wherever she ends up, the relationship or the reputation of the school are bonuses, not Reasons She Changed Her Life. She should apply everywhere, and go to whichever school ends up being cheapest.

Ashley: Or whichever one accepts her. "Almost" straight As isn't that great.

Lulu: I hate you.

Parents can also complicate the college choice, and as this letter writer found out in a Dear Abby column of December 13, 2008, advice columnist side with the parents.

DEAR ABBY: I am a senior in high school, and my friends and I are all looking at different colleges. I have one friend whose parents are all about deciding what is right for him and won't let him make the final decision as to where he should go. They believe that choosing a college is all about connections and what careers make the most money.

Shouldn't my friend be able to pursue his dream of becoming a writer and attend the college of his choice? Should his parents be able to make the decision about where he should go?

Lulu: The question is, do the parents have the right to choose the school, if they are the ones paying for it?

Ashley: Yes. Yes they do.

Lulu: Okay, yeah, I mean, it's their money, but don't they have some kind of a responsibility to let the kid start to make his own, adult choices?

Ashley: Not if his adult choice means I'm paying $100k for art history.

Lulu: It's going to be a waste of money anyway if they pack a kid off to LSE if he hates math, you know? You can refuse to pay for Sarah Lawrence, but you can't make him be motivated to become a manager.

Ashley: I'd offer less money for certain majors.

Lulu: So complicated. You'd have to come up with a whole system.

Ashley: I'd do it. $100k for engineering, $20k for English.

Lulu: Yeah, I mean, that's rational. I'm not saying I'm against it. I just think he needs to go to hell his own way.

Ashley: That's your answer to everything, isn't it?

Lulu: It is my generalized parenting philosophy, yes. Didn't you feel bad for those kids in college who were always arguing with their parents about why they didn't want to study finance? Half the time their parents were misinformed about what majors would be useful by the time they graduated, anyway. They can't be micromanaging his adult life.

Ashley: In that case, they shouldn't give him any money.

Lulu: Right, but lots of parents, if they can afford it, want their kids to go to college. I mean, I bet they'd also be pissed if he chose not to go to college because he wouldn't accept money on their terms. I see Abby's point, but if it were the parents writing in, I feel like I'd want to tell them not to intervene in what the kid studies.

Ashley: But they didn't write in.

Lulu: True. I still don't think the parents are right, but in the end, it really doesn't matter. You can't make people give you money when they don't want to.

Ashley: I don't think the parents are right, but I don't think expecting them to pay in the first place is a good idea. It's great if they do, but it's your life.

Lulu: Right. Whether or not the parents are right is ultimately academic. Even if they were denying you something you really believed was your right--food or going to high school or something--the best thing to do isn't to whine that it's unfair, but to say "fuck em" and find some way to do without them.

Ashley: You can really see paying $100k for your kid to get an English degree?

Lulu: Oh hell no. My kids are getting scholarships or going to state.

Ashley: $100k is what state costs, these days.

Lulu: My kids are getting scholarships or apprenticing with a plumber.

Ashley: Oh, a plumber? What on eaaaaaaarth is that?

College is great, but if what you want out of college (as most people do) is to learn some things and meet some people, then you can be happy anywhere there's students and teachers together in one place. Most high school students are unsure about what they want to ultimately study, so the only rational way to make the decision is based on (a) what you can best afford, taking into account scholarships and parents' willingness to pay, and (b) "irrational" reasons, such as the location of your boyfriend/friends/favorite city/favorite climate/where your whimsy takes you. So don't stress out: wherever you go, there you are.