The White Flag

One of the recurring themes in this blog and in my lifetime of reading advice columns has been the urging of teens not to have sex. I'm not sure at what point it becomes "go for it"--18? Freshman in college? Dr. Wallace of Tween Twelve and Twenty (who often gives fairly good dating and parent-handling advice) perennially posts a column that goes something like this:

LW1: I had/am having/plan to have teen sex and the sky has not fallen. What's the big deal?

DR. WALLACE: A lot of girls disagree with you! Read on...

LWS 2-8: I had teen sex and from that moment on, my boyfriend stopped wanting to go out to drive-in or the soda shoppe, he just wanted to stay in and have more sex! Later, he dumped me! Girls, do NOT have sex! Obviously that is the moral and not that I was dating a jerk or that teen relationships end.

I've gotten used to ignoring this because it will never go away, but October 2's Ask Amy couldn't be ignored for sheer (1) needless badgering (Amy lists several panic-emergency procedures to mitigate the inevitable STD/baby damage of the teen sex even though the LW stated that both participants were virgins and used protection) and (2) acceptance of an entirely foolhardy premise.

DEAR AMY: My boyfriend and I have been in a relationship for a little over a year. We are both teenagers and above the age of consent in our state (I am 16). We are in love. We had a couple of serious conversations about sex, and we decided to go ahead.

It was the first time for both of us and was special. We were safe and responsible, and neither of us has any regrets. However, my parents do not know that we are sexually active, and they do not seem to trust me to be safe and responsible about my decisions.

I worry that if they found out the degree to which we are intimate, they would force us to break up. I would like to be able to talk to them about this, but I have no idea how to broach the subject. Please tell me how I can talk to them.
Anonymous

Amy's response:

DEAR ANONYMOUS: You should go to your physician or to Planned Parenthood for a checkup and STD and birth control counseling. If you and your guy are unable to face this task together, then you should not be in a sexual relationship. Check plannedparenthood.org or call 800-230-PLAN (7526) for a local clinic.

The reason your parents might not trust you is because they were your age once and they know how momentous this choice is -- and how physically and emotionally vulnerable you both are. Your parents have the utmost stake in your emotional and physical health.

Your desire to talk to your folks about this tells me that you have a good relationship and simply want to be honest with them. Share this first with the parent you are closer to, but remember this: Your honesty will also inspire their honest reaction.

They may be upset. But if they are thoughtful, they will appreciate the opportunity to talk it through with you. (Your boyfriend should also talk to his parents.) The Planned Parenthood website also has resources for parents.

Lulu: Wrong! Correct answer: DON'T. Why, why, why, why, why, why would you tell them? Do you want them to tell you about their sex life?? If you cannot speak to your parents without omitting the personal, none-of-their-business details of your life, then you shouldn't be in a sexual relationship. Check http://www.wikihow.com/Lie for advice on how to lie.

Ashley: I have actually decided to wave the white flag of stupidity. If you WANT to talk to your parents about sex, then you can accept the consequences.

Lulu: It's like asking, How can I safely lop my own head off?

Ashley: If you are asking you are already beyond saving.

Being Jewish

Often we don't post because we can't find anything remotely interesting in the advice columns; other times, one complete month of advice columns goes by and we're too busy with our online gaming addictions to even read them. But yesterday's seventh graders mocking each other in Ask Amy is just the kind we have strong opinions about, enough to break free of our orc-forged chains and actually do a post.

Dear Amy: I am in seventh grade. I am Jewish. I have a Native American friend in the same grade. We have a lot of classes together, and his locker is right next to mine. We have fun together, and he makes me laugh a lot, but he makes fun of me a lot too.

Sometimes he says that I'm fat, but most of the time he makes fun of me because I'm Jewish.

For example, today we were goofing around, and a friend of his said, "What's going on?" and he said, "She was being Jewish." This really hurt my feelings.

He has said that kind of stuff before, and I hate it when he does it. I have tried to get him to stop. Sometimes when I tell him to stop making fun of me, he says stuff like, "But you make fun of me, too." I don't make fun of him like that.

I told him I didn't like it when he made fun of me for being Jewish, and he stopped for about a day. My mom knows that he has made fun of my religion a few times, but I haven't told her that he does it almost every day.

I would feel safe telling a teacher, but I'm afraid that if I do so I will lose him as a friend, and I don't want that to happen. We have almost all of our classes together.

I can also imagine that it might make things worse if I tell. But sometimes I want to cry when he makes fun of me. I don't know what to do.

Amy responds,

There is a difference between having fun and "making fun of." Friends goof around and occasionally tease each other. But it's never okay to criticize someone's ethnicity or religion, even if you're joking.

That's not friendly teasing, that's bullying. And if you're afraid to tell an adult because you think it might make things worse, then that's a sign that this kid is a bully-in-training.

You can say to him, "I want you to stop making fun of my religion. I don't make fun of your being a Native American. What you're doing is mean, and I don't think you're really a mean person, so I want you to stop."

Give him another chance to change. And then, depending on what he says or does next, you should definitely take your concern to your mother and to a teacher.

Lulu: Amy seems to be telling the girl to do things she has already done: ask him to stop, tell him where the boundaries are, and if he doesn't stop, tell a teacher. But I think all of that is shitty advice for a seventh-grader.

Seventh-graders will not respond to a calm discussion of boundaries. He keeps doing it because it gets her riled up, not in spite of it. Saying "This is off-limits, don't make fun of this" is like drawing a target.

And crying to teacher will solve nothing. What is a teacher going to do? Punish the boy and make you feel like a tattletale? Have a Classroom Activity about Being Sensitive to Each Other's Culture, which the boy will ignore and mock?

Ashley: Is it wrong of me that maybe she should make fun of him for being NA? She'll prolly get expelled though :(

Lulu: What is there to make fun of? Your people were oppressed and killed by white man! LAUGH RIOT. I think she should ignore it. Just roll her eyes when he does it. Talk to him about something else. Or don't, if he's not worth talking to.

Ashley: I guess you could own the joke?

"Want to hang out?"
"No, I'll be over here being Jewish"

Lulu: Ha. Yeah, that's another way to go. Demonstrate how ridiculous it is.

Ashley: But yeah, at the end, you either accept it as part of your friend, or you get new friends.

Lulu: And learning how to deal with a friend who is kind of a jerk--to either ignore the jerk parts or drop him as a friend--is an important life skill! Because everyone is a jerk.

Ashley: It's true!

Middle school problems

In today's Ask Amy, a middle school girl has nebulous drama. Then, I have middle-school drama!

I am a seventh-grade girl. I have been having trouble with a guy at my school. We'll call him "Chas." Me, my friend and one other girl all like him.

Chas has shown some interest in asking all three of us out. To make matters worse, our Valentine's dance at school is coming up.

The three of us girls decided that we won't be mad at whoever Chas asks to the dance. But to add even another problem, we all have other "crushes" as well.

I thought I only liked Chas, but in the past couple of weeks, I have seen a guy who I like even more. We'll call him "Randy." Randy has also shown an interest in at least talking to me. I think he might ask me out.

I wouldn't mind dating either of these guys, even though I think dating at my age is a little insane. But even if I dated one I would still like to have a friendship with the other boy. What should I do?

I can see where Amy is coming from with her advice, but it's just the sort of thing an adult would say.

The first thing you need to do is - simmer down.

I realize that asking a seventh-grade girl to simmer down is like asking Justin Bieber to stop being adorable, but all the same, if you could relax you'll have a better time at the Valentine's dance, and beyond.

You and your friends are starting to choreograph a dance you'll be performing for the rest of your lives.

For now you should do your "dating" as a group. If you don't pair off, you won't have to worry about a boyfriend relationship interfering with your friendships, and you'll be free to enjoy your crush-of-the-day.

Lulu: I just don't think it's feasible.

Ashley: I don't get either the problem or the response.

Lulu: It's a non-problem. She's new to dating and exuberant and doesn't know the rules. For her reference, here are the rules:

1. If you want to go out with someone, ask them
2. If someone asks you out, decide whether you would like to go out with them, and say yes or no accordingly.

That is all!

Ashley: Ha ha.

Lulu: I know it's more complicated in practice. And Amy's advice to relax and take things as they come is good (if hard to implement). But her advice to not date and just go out as groups is not going to work at all. That's a total adult fantasy of what young teen social life should be like. Like it or not, middle and high school kids are all about couples and pairing off. Doing stuff as a group is fine, but there will be pairs within that--even if they change daily--and the participants will always be obsessing about who is with who.

She can choose not to date, but she won't, because that's no fun when you're the only one, and she certainly can't change what her friends do, or the boys do. You can engage in the dating culture that's around you, or not, but you can't just decide to have a different culture.

Ashley: I didn't participate in seventh-grade culture, but I don't remember being particularly confused. If she likes a guy better than another guy... ask the guy out. What's the problem?

Lulu: It's unclear. I think she likes 2 guys, and even if she sort of likes the one better than the other, the other is more popular and she doesn't want to be out of the running? I dunno. If she can't decide between them, she can just wait and see if one of them asks her out. Or she could decide which one she likes best and ask that one out. Or she could flip a coin. Middle school relationships don't last that long, as a rule; it's not a huge commitment.

And to answer her actual question, dating one guy absolutely doesn't mean she can't be friends with the other! She can have as many friends as she wants. She PROBABLY can't date both at the same time--that would have been frowned on in my middle school--but she probably won't get the opportunity, so it's no problem.

Ashley: She also says it's insane to date at her age??

Lulu: Yeah, maybe that's why Amy is telling her not to date. She seems to find the whole thing overwhelming and a bit ridiculous. It is a bit ridiculous, because you say "going out" but you're not really going out--neither of you can drive, you can't get anywhere, you mostly probably hang out at school. All it really means is that you have a special feeling about somebody and they have the same feeling about you, so you've agreed to give each other titles. If that seems fun and exciting rather than totally pointless, then you're old enough.

[lull; Lulu checks work email]

Oh god, officewide Valentine's candygrams!

Ashley: Oh god.

Lulu: I can't afford to send one to the entire team and yet if I don't I'm playing FAVORITES.

Ashley: Send them to no one!

Lulu: Yeah. That is what I will probably do. But I want to GET some. Maybe I will send myself like 4.

Ashley: How expensive are they?

Lulu: 2 for $5.

Ashley: How big is the team?

Lulu: Like 20 people!

Ashley: Hah!

Lulu: There are only 5 in the row, but there is ONE PERSON I like outside the row. And there is one person that I have a childish crush on, but my first instinct--to send them four--could probably be considered workplace harassment.

Ashley: You're just screwed then.

Lulu: Probably it is more cost effective to just buy myself candy that I like, but that's not fraught with potential important office drama!

Do we have any readers, still? This is an open call for advice for MY middle school level non-problem! Or the LW's, I guess.

Inconsequential Friday: Email Sign-offs!

Lulu: Ask Amy had a question about teen sex, but what I'm MORE interested in is the last question which is about work email sign-offs!

Q. About two years ago I started getting e-mails from professional colleagues that were signed off with the word "Best."

Am I the only one who finds this grating and pompous? Or am I just being old-fashioned when I insist that the sender sign off with a phrase that actually means something?

Lulu: No, you're being irrational. No sign-off means anything after enough repetition.

Ashley: Yep. I hate sign-offs. I just go: "-Ashley"

Lulu: Yeah, so do I. I put "-Ashley" too. Just in case.

Ashley: What does this person want instead? "Love"?

Lulu: Would they be okay with "Sincerely"? Because there is a meaningless one. Not only is it used past the point where you think about what the word means, but what it does mean is, what, "The above is true"? There's nothing more suspect than calling attention to your own sincerity. Like when people say "To be honest..."

Ashley: Yeah. So, dude, my kindle...

Lulu: And then there's cheers. Don't get me started.

Ashley: I didn't.

Lulu: Exclusively used, as far as I can tell, by bosses, professors, and other people who would NOT appreciate it if you walked out in the middle of the day to go to the pub. FALSE ADVERTISING.

So, friends, how should you sign off an email? We did not come to a conclusion! Let us know your thoughts!

Until then, we remain,

Your faithful servants,

Lulu and Ashley

Playing Catch-up (III)

We've been talking about advice, a little, sort of! We just haven't been posting. Here are the last two weeks in Lulu and Ashleyville.

Jan 11 A Dear Prudence question leads us to wonder if there is a "mature" way for a teenager to conduct a sex life while living at home with anti-premarital-sex parents.

Q. Pre-Marital Sex and Parents: My boyfriend and I are in a loving relationship and we have been dating for eight months already. He has been wanting to have sex, but since my parents are very against pre-marital sex, I have been really hesitant. Personally I want to, and am telling him that once I get a chance, to we can do it. I feel nothing wrong with having sex before marriage at all, but I feel morally conflicted by having to lie to my parents. What should I do?

A: Now that's some shocking news: Your boyfriend would really, really like to have sex. Are you 16 or 26? It makes a difference. I'm against premarital sex by high-school students. I'm not against pre-marital sex by responsible college-age people. (In fact, I can't imagine marrying someone one hasn't had sex with.) However, if you are making this decision based on how your parents would react, that tells me you aren't really old enough to start engaging in sex. Instead of lying to your parents, I think you should tell your boyfriend, "I really like you, but since I can't stand the thought of sneaking around on my parents to have sex with you, that tells me I'm not ready to have sex with you." If he breaks up with you or pressures you, that only should underline the wisdom of your parents' prohibition (for now).

Lulu: I don't think she is 'not old enough' because she doesn't want to create an elaborate web of lies for the people she presumably lives with. When you are 16, owning your choice to have sex and being upfront about it with your parents is not really an option.

Ashley: Well, it's that or web of lies. If she's unwilling to do either, then she's the one who doesn't want sex, and she should own that decision.

Lulu: It's not that she's "not ready" or "not mature enough" but that she doesn't want it enough for the downsides. That's not immaturity, it's logic.

Ashley: Well, I think caring what your parents think is a little immature. It depends if it's a convenience thing - she lives with them and doesn't want the drama - or if she doesn't want to disappoint. If she doesn't want to disappoint, she's immature.

Lulu: Is that a sign of immaturity? Wanting to disappoint your parents is pretty immature.

Ashley: Putting too much stock in what your parents think is immature, either way, especially if you haven't actually thought about the topic yourself and/or come to your own opinions. It's like... going to school to be a doctor because your parents want you to be a doctor. If you want to be a doctor, that's great, but if you never thought about it, that's immature.

Lulu: So in this case, do you think she should keep a low profile and sneak around, or challenge her parents on the whole premarital sex idea?

Ashley: If she lives with them, I'd say sneak around. If she doesn't, she doesn't have to do either. You just don't mention it. Who talks about their sex life with their parents anyway?

Lulu: I mean in general, just to say that you don't think it's wrong.

Ashley: Sure, if she wants to, and doesn't mind the fight. I don't think it's required.

Lulu: Hee hee, here's the same/opposite problem in Tween 12 and 20.

Q. I'm 18 and already graduated from high school. This guy I'm seeing is 20, and we have been dating for over six months. Everybody thinks Ian is the perfect guy for me. He doesn't drink, do drugs or smoke. And most of all, he isn't sexually aggressive.

He has a good job and is well-liked by his boss. I went to a company party with him. His boss told me what a good worker Brad is and how lucky I am to have him as a boyfriend.

My parents and my older sister feel that he is the perfect guy for me. Ian is everybody's dream. He sends me flowers on special occasions and writes poetry when he is in the mood, which is often. All my female friends think he is one handsome dude and feel I'm very fortunate to have him.

But as you have already figured out, I don't love the guy. To tell the truth, I want the freedom to date other guys, but I find it difficult to tell him this because I know I would hurt him severely. I also would hurt my family.

A. Love isn't decided by committee. This is between you and Ian — your friends, your family and his boss have no say in the matter. And as you are well aware, the time has come to tell Ian you want to end the relationship.

Ashley: Wait. He's Ian AND Brad?

Jan 16 Along the same lines, a prospective college freshman places too much emphasis on her parents' opinion in Annie's Mailbox. But this time, we're against the decision on its own merits. Then we veer off sharply.

Dear Annie: I am a senior in high school. My boyfriend and I have been together for a long time, and we love each other very much. We are attending colleges that are about 30 minutes apart. We want to get an apartment between the campuses so we can live together. This would be much cheaper than paying for room and board.

I'd like to talk to my parents about this, Annie, but they are so protective that I'm afraid they won't allow it.

Dear Senior: We're going to ask you not to do this. We know you love your boyfriend. But the first year of college can bring tremendous changes to both of you. By living with your boyfriend, you are cutting off opportunities that may expand your horizons and develop your character. Please consider doing the room-and-board bit for your first year. If you still want to live together after that, you will be in a better position to talk to your parents about it, and they are less likely to object.

Ashley: I don't think her parents are what she should be concerned with. She needs to consider her boyfriend as a roommate - is he going to be hell to live with if they break up?

Lulu: I think that's what Annie is getting at, but there is no better way to alienate an 18-year-old than to tell her her character is not fully formed.

Ashley: Of course, if her parents are paying her rent, then they have a right to dictate who lives in their apartment. Did you know there's a webapp to convert your SAT/GRE scores to IQ? Since they're all standardized, it makes sense.

Lulu: Yeah--no, so wait, you have a higher IQ than me???

Jan 21 A typical Lulu rant spurred by an uncharacteristically black-and-white answer on premarital cohabitation in Tween 12 and 20. Again, we suddenly veer.

DR. WALLACE: My girlfriend and I have been living together since we graduated from high school two years ago. I love her very much and want to get married. She says she loves me, too, but she wants to wait another couple of years before making that decision. My parents are very unhappy about our setup.
Since she wants to wait, my question is, should we continue to live together (we are sexually intimate) until we say "I do," or should we separate until we make it legal? — Nameless, Hobart, Ind.

NAMELESS: It appears to me that your girlfriend wants the security of "married life" without the responsibilities. Separate now. It would be much better this way than to wait two years to find out that she still doesn't want to marry you.

Besides, if you separate, it could make her realize she can't live without you. And she just might decide to make things legal.

Lulu: I guess thousands of committed cohabiting couples want "the security of 'married life' without the responsibilities." Exactly what responsibilities do you have once you're married that you don't have when you're living together?

Ashley: Maybe like... financial? But not all married couples merge finances.

Lulu: I find this attitude so weird, it's not like being married magically changes anything. Statistically, sure, a random married person is probably more likely to have joint finances or whatever than a random single person, but you can do married stuff while not married and you can not do married stuff when you are married.

Ashley: Does your hair still look good on day 2?

Lulu: Pretty good! It started out MORE spiky because my spike wax is more spiky than the pomade they use at the hair place, but then I put a hat on.

Jan 23 In Ask Amy, a young intern complains about old people today.

Q. I am an 18-year-old intern working for a large office. I am the only student in the office, and everyone else who works here is old enough to be my parent or even grandparent.

I consider myself very good with adults. However, I am not sure how to respond in some situations. When they complain about their teenagers and kids, and then expect me to represent the entire under-25 demographic. For example, they say, "I can't understand how teenagers are so rude, they are always texting," or they ask me, "Why do you guys constantly disrespect us with your texting?" Meanwhile, they have never seen me with my phone out.

I would really appreciate a polite, diplomatic answer to respond when I am caught in the middle of one of these conversations.

A. I agree with you that this is tiresome. The next time this happens, go "Jeopardy!" and answer their questions in the form of a question. For example:

They: "Why are you kids so all-fired rude, always messing around with your textometer machines?"

You: "Gosh- I don't know! I don't text very much, certainly when I'm with other people. Are you saying your kids do this? What do you think is going on?"

Ashley: Ha ha, yes. Amy's right, though.

Lulu: Yeah, but then you end up having to have a boring conversation about texting. "Yeah. Uh-huh. I guess when you grow up with a technology, it doesn't seem strange to you." "Yeah, I find it rude when people text other people while talking to me, too." "It's good for some situations."

Ashley: Or you could answer with the ever-popular "I dunno, why do all old people smell funny?"

Lulu: Well, you'd have to text them that. "Hold on." (pulls out phone)

And now it's today! Maybe now we can escape the vicious circle where we don't post because there is too much catching-up to do. Nothing can be done, however, about the problem where we don't post because we are lazy.

Ski Don't

From the January 3 Ask Amy:

Dear Amy: I'm a 15-year-old girl, and I have an excellent boy friend (not a boyfriend, but a friend who is a boy).

He is 17 and wants to take me skiing one weekend.

We have been friends for a very long time, and I know him well.

However, I am nervous that when I propose this short trip to my parents, they will be afraid that I will be attacked or something if I go with him alone. (We would be alone on this trip.)

Even though my parents don't know him, I trust him completely.

Even if he tried something, I am a black belt in tae kwon do and would be able to defend myself.

I really want to go on this trip, but my parents most likely won't consent. How can I prove to them that I am responsible and that they can trust a person who I trust?

Amy, of course, tells her to suck it up and listen to her parents.

Most parents wouldn't let their teen go away on a weekend trip alone with another teen (no matter the gender).

You are kidding yourself if you think a black belt in anything will serve to protect you in a vulnerable situation. In my view, running away might be the smartest defense if you are in trouble. But that's beside the point. You will win your parents' trust by being trustworthy. That means introducing them to your friends — especially this friend — and permitting them to do their job, which is to make decisions based on their (not your) best judgment.

Did she really think Amy would help here? What's surprising, though, is that we don't either--much.

Lulu: Dan savage answered a question like this one time in the podcast. The girl wanted to go camping with her friend who is a boy but not a boyfriend. Dan basically told the girl that she'll never get her mom's consent so either she has to stay home and sulk, or sneak out and get the trip but probably get caught.

Ashley: There are paths in-between. It kind of seems like maybe she should ask her parents, or his, to take them both on a ski weekend.

Lulu: Yeah. She's righteously angry about the presumption that she'll automatically hook up with her male platonic friend, but I think she's making too much of that part (maybe her parents are, too.) It's not because he's a boy. Most parents would not let a 15 year old go on a ski weekend with a 17 year old and no adults.

Ashley: I don't imagine she'd be allowed to go even with a group of teenagers--not at 15. 16, maybe. I'm trying to think when my parents let me do stuff. I went on vacation with my boyfriend's family when I was 16.

Lulu: Yeah. I took a friend on vacation with my family when I was 14. The family is key there. I bet lots of parents would let a teenager go away for the weekend with her friend's whole family. Where I agree with Amy is that it would help if the parents knew the friend, and possibly his family (or at least had a phone conversation with them). It throws some suspicion on the matter if you're dead set on keeping the parents from meeting the friend.

Ashley: I think I could have convinced my parents to let me go on a ski weekend with a big group of friends at 16.

Lulu: Possibly mine too. It never occurred to me. My friends and I mostly just went on a day trips.

Ashley: I went to Italy when I was 16.

Lulu: That was a school trip, though, wasn't it? Presumably there were chaperones. Not that four or five adults can look after 20 kids at all times, but plausible deniability!

Ashley: Yeah, but I think that was the line for me. Once I left for a week, then I could basically do whatever with whomever. So maybe she should start small and develop her independence over time. Adults present for this one, then a group of teenagers, then her with the guy.

Or, whatever, just sneak out. Have a friend say she's sleeping over. Of course, if she gets injured or something, that would be awkward to explain.

Lulu: There are a lot of ways to get caught, especially now that the parents know what she's planning. And then she's kind of fucked. They won't let her out again until she's 30.

Ashley: She could start small with that, too. Develop those skills over time.

Lulu: So, assuming she doesn't do that, for this particular trip, we're basically telling her the same as Amy: go with the no. Age a bit.

Ashley: No, we're telling her to submit a modified request. Change the trip so there are adults involved. Then she still gets to ski. Assuming it's skiing she wants.

Lulu: It's sort of unclear why she's set on going with just this guy. Whom she has no romantic interest in and plans to beat up if he tries anything.

Ashley: He probably has a car.

Lulu: But why not take along other friends?

Ashley: Because he invited her? I agree that she should.

Lulu: Why isn't he taking along other people on this trip? Is he interested in her? Does he have no other friends? Maybe he only has a two-seater. Or a motorcycle.

Ashley: It's becoming clear why she doesn't want her parents to meet him.

Friday Fake Out

Lulu: Ooh, I didn't see yesterday's Ask Amy. There is a LONELY BOY. I guess our "join mathletes" advice would still apply.

Ashley: Oh, right. I saw that. I refuse to answer anything that asks how he can "have a personal, intimate relationship with a female."

Lulu: It does sound like he is talking about an animal.

Ashley: Right. It's creepy.

Lulu: "How can I have a personal relationship with a female specimen?"

Ashley: Ewww.

Lulu: "of the family Hesperiidae?"

Ashley: Ewwwwwww.

Uniform smoothness

Ashley: Think the first letter in Ask Amy today is a fake?

Dear Amy: I am a girl in my junior year of high school, and the volleyball coach won't let me compete until I shave my underarms and legs (our uniforms are sleeveless tops and shorts).

I don't want to be forced into something that I feel is completely unnecessary. Leg and underarm hair is a completely natural part of becoming a woman.

Is this discrimination? Is there anything I can do (besides shave)?

I really want to play volleyball!

— Hair Today, Gone Tomorrow

Dear Gone: If your coach also insisted that the male volleyball or basketball players must shave their underarms and legs, then perhaps this wouldn't qualify as discrimination.

I'm going to assume that your coach does not make the male players at your school adhere to the same shaving practices.

I shared your letter with Lenore Lapidus, director of the Women's Rights Project for the American Civil Liberties Union, who responded, "This is clearly gender discrimination, based on stereotypes of how girls and women should look." Lapidus would like to remind your coach that Title IX prohibits discrimination in any institution receiving federal funds.

Title IX is the federal statute that pushed open the door for girls to compete in sports on an equal footing with boys.

Lapidus suggests that you start by talking to the coach. "Try to work it out at school. It seems like something they should come around about because this is fairly clear-cut."

If your coach continues to insist on this shaving rule, take your concern to the principal.

I hope you will stand up for your right not to be forced to shave any part of your body that you don't wish to shave.

Lulu: I don't know. Seems plausible. You mean because nobody would be that flagrantly sexist?

Ashley: No, people would. I just think there's not a 16 year old girl who would write "it's a normal part of becoming a woman." That's an adult talking.

Lulu: Oh, I see. Maybe it was true in the past? "I was once a high school junior..."

Ashley: I just don't think that 1) a 16 year old girl would actually care, if she actually wanted to play, and 2) a coach wouldn't give a fuck either. I think it's made up to bring attention to the overshaving of American society.

Lulu: It does seem like a small thing to an athlete, who do tons of stuff in service of their sport. Although this is fairly clearly not actually in service of the sport.

Ashley: Well, in as far as it could be part of the "uniform."

Lulu: The girls' uniform is to be beeeeautiful.

Ashley: Well, I think the point of uniforms is to look uniform.

Lulu: Everybody gets lipo!

Ashley: Sweet! It's all I ever wanted?

Guys vs. grenades

The fifteen year old from a few days ago isn't alone: this girl in today's Ask Amy is 17, and also not allowed to date.

DEAR AMY: I am 17, and I don't know how to talk to my parents about letting me date. I've never had a boyfriend because my parents always said no.

I understand that having a relationship at 15 is too young, but my father has told my brothers and me that he was 17 when he started dating, so I think I should be able to date too.

I am the oldest child and the only daughter. My parents might be afraid of my getting pregnant as my mother did at a young age.

I am planning to go into the military service fairly soon.

How can I talk to my parents about this?

Amy offers some practical reasoning and compromise for her to try:

Ironically, if you are permitted to date while still living at home, this will give your parents an opportunity to see you navigate in the dating world, to check out your choices and to influence you in a positive way.

As it is, I worry that you'll go into the military with no interpersonal relationship experience. That could spell trouble for you.

Dating is important because it teaches you how to discern. It helps you figure out what makes other people tick. And dating is fun.

Start by asking your folks what might be acceptable. If they won't let you go out on a date, would they let you invite someone over to the house?

Lulu: "Yup, your parents are wrong!" That still doesn't really give her anything to actually do.

Ashley: She asked how to talk to her parents, and I guess Amy answers that. She tells her to ask specifically what she is and isn't allowed to do.

Lulu: I guess? I guess it's good to clarify the rules. I mean, really, she just needs to do what people since time immemorial have done and date anyway.

Ashley: Well, yes. Given the current world situation, it's probably safer to date than to go into the military, so why do they allow the more dangerous one?

Lulu:Yeah, her parents are cool with that? Maybe they aren't, but she'll be an adult by then.

Ashley: She can date in the military?

Lulu: I guess then she shouldn't date anyway now if she wants to train for following the arbitrary rules of superior officers. But then also no backtalk. Hers is not to reason why.

Does a jerk brother count as a verbal abuser?

Dear Imprudence is another online advice column deconstruction (we're so unoriginal), with a particular focus on feminism and disability. Recently they posted a review of this July 19 Ask Amy column which interested us, too, since the writer is a high school student:

I feel like I am being verbally abused by my brother, who constantly tells me that I don't do things right...

Whenever he criticizes me, he says things like, "You're lazy." Or he'll say, "If you continue to make these choices then you probably won't have the greatest path you can have in life." His words hurt me and my self-esteem suffers, even if I know he doesn't really mean it. I do believe he loves me for who I am, but this bothers me.

Amy told the writer, essentially, to buck up:

Words do hurt. But they hurt less if you make a healthy choice to let the stuff roll off you that you know isn't true. Your parents should nip this in the bud, but you shouldn't leave your brother in charge of your self-esteem.

Dear Imprudence pointed out an inconsistency: Amy generally agrees with readers' assessments of abuse (as in this recent example), and suggests that Amy has a bias against young people.

Lulu: I was kind of surprised Amy blew her off. She usually errs on the side of calling abuse abuse.

Ashley: Right! Actually, I was impressed. Amy was encouraging the writer to stand up to the bully and not embrace victimhood.

Lulu: Yeah, I like the bit about not giving other people the power to hurt you. But I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't taking the writer seriously only because she's young, and so is the purported abuser.

Ashley: Well, age does make a difference! We don't really know the extent of what the brother is doing, but I definitely made my sister cry a lot when we were younger. Now we get along great. I got over needing to be Always Right--

Lulu: You sure did.

Ashley: --shush!--and she got over Crying At The Drop Of A Hat. I think we're both better off for the experience. I should check in with her about that...

Frivolous wastes of money

In today's Ask Amy, a parents frets about her daughter's use of money.

Dear Amy: My daughter recently graduated from college.

My husband and I paid for all of her expenses, though she held a part-time job.

We opened a bank account for her when she was a child. We added about $10,000 to this account when she started college.

Our daughter has spent all of her savings and paychecks throughout these four years on clothes and going out with friends.

I have berated her countless times on her spending habits.

Right before she graduated, she said she'd found an apartment to live in with her two friends.

I told her NOT to sign a lease because she couldn't afford it.

She moved home and now has a full-time job ($14 an hour) and another side job while she looks for work in her field.

Her friends took the apartment and she goes there on weekends.

She assured me that she was not on the lease.

Of course, now I find out that she is. I am livid.

I told her she needs to either get someone to sublet the apartment or go ahead and move into it, but she will not be able to keep our car or have us pay any of her expenses.

She found a bus that can get her close to work but I am worried for her safety when she gets out of work at 10 p.m. and is waiting for a bus in a dangerous neighborhood.

She wants to buy our car, but with her track record I know she will not keep up with payments.

I think she needs to see what real life is all about but if something happened to her as she waited for a bus I would never forgive myself.

Any suggestions?

Amy says the girl needs to get out on her own--which we agree with--but she seems to concur with the parents' assessment that she's by nature a wasteful drain on society:

Her spending habits will get her into trouble unless she makes the connection necessary to be a good steward to her own finances. Until then I suggest it's time she learned to eat ramen noodles over the sink.

We don't agree. It looks to us like she wants to get out on her own (she works two jobs! she's willing to take a bus! she signed a lease! which apparently she can afford after all?) but she's just a doormat (why all the secrecy with the lease?) But her parents are oddly standing in the way of the steps they claim to want her to take.

Ashley: Those parents are very strange.

Lulu: Right?

Ashley: They want the daughter to be responsible for herself but also they're very controlling. Can't wait for a bus at 10pm?

Lulu: Yeah, they want it both ways.

Ashley: And Amy's response: take a cab?

Lulu: If you need to you take a cab every time you get out of work, you might as well not have a job.

Ashley: I'm not sure these people know how much things cost.

Lulu: It looks like the girl is not unwilling to meet the terms of living on her own, but the mom doesn't find her solutions acceptable. It's like, they sheltered her too long and now they're mad at her because she's unprepared for the world. But the way to help someone be independent isn't to micromanage them so they don't make any unsafe or expensive choices.

Ashley: According to the parents, some things are Worth The Money and some things are Frivolous Wastes. So not taking a bus at 10pm is Worth The Money, but eating out with friends is a Frivolous Waste. But for me, it's opposite. It's all the person's preference.

Lulu: As a parent, if you think things are worth it that the child doesn't, you can provide them as a present, but you can't demand that the child spend her own money on the things you think are worth it.

Ashley: It kind of seemed like she offered to buy out their car to make them feel better, and now they're all, "she won't pay us!"

Lulu: I bet if she found a cheaper car they would be like, "she bought this UNSAFE CAR."

Ashley: The thing is, she can't immediately get an awesome job out of college. For a while, she'll have to live in an unsafe neighborhood or whatever.

Lulu: Yeah, I think that is what Amy is getting at in her ramen answer, although she frames it as if the girl is the one who'll object to that. Parents who are well off and raise their child to be well off are sometimes appalled by the lower standard of living they have when they are on their own, but that's what it's LIKE when you're starting out.

But ramen is very unhealthy. She should at least get pasta. Come on.

Not all who game are addicts

Hi. My name is Ashley, and I am a gamer.

This post is brought to you by my raid sucking utterly and giving me lots of time between attempts to write up a rant.

Ashley: Dude if my raid can't get its act together, I'm never getting the Unwelcome Mat! It's such an easy fight; all you have to do is not screw up for fifteen minutes. That's all! DO NOT LET THE DRAGON EAT YOU. DO NOT KILL PEOPLE WITH THE PURPLE EYE.

Lulu: I like cake and string!

Ashley: Delicious string...

The thing about advice columnists is that they're mostly women; the thing about women is that most of them hate video games. I don't know what it is about this particular pastime that inspires such disdain, but columnists (and the women* who write to them) are quick to label gamers as "addicts" and dismiss any other potential issues that may be at play.

Before we get to some examples, in the interest of full disclosure, I spend an average of twenty hours per week playing video games. My boyfriend plays more than that (25? Maybe 30). It's not an unreasonable amount of time to spend on a hobby, and it tends to, at least in my experience, replace other "useless" hobbies such as watching tv.

In addition to actual time-sink elements, there are also qualitatively different ways to play video games. A lot of the letter writers are most concerned about multiplayer online games (usually World of Warcraft); I don't play that particular game but I have, for years, played very similar ones. With multiplayer games, one can play them, effectively, as a single-player game, or as a social event where the game is a background activity and the primary goal is to socialize with others. Why one plays a game is just as important as how much time one spends on it.

So, example the first: in an Annie's Mailbox letter, a woman writes in about her husband:

Dear Annie: Over the last couple of years, I have come to realize that I am married to an 80-year-old man, even though he is only 31 and I am 29.

On a typical day, "Jeremy" leaves for work at 4:30 a.m. and gets home 12 hours later. I know he works hard and is stressed, but he never does anything except eat dinner and then log onto the computer. He isn't looking at porn or stuff like that, but he does play an online game called World of Warcraft. He even plays during dinner. He logs on the moment he gets home and doesn't get off until 9 p.m. Of course, by then, he's too tired to do anything except crawl into bed.

We have two children, 8 and 5, and Jeremy never does anything with them. I'm also feeling the big chill. We never go anywhere or do anything. On the rare occasion I can get him to go out, he sulks like a 2-year-old. I won't go into our sex life, but we average about twice a month. The lack of intimacy is a real problem. We tried counseling a few years ago, but Jeremy refuses to go again. Any thoughts would be nice. -- Warcraft Widow

The reply is,

Dear Widow: Jeremy is addicted to his online game. It's not uncommon, particularly with World of Warcraft, and you won't be able to wean him off it without his cooperation. It's become his alternate reality, and he likes it there. (There is actually a website for people who have found reasons to quit at wowdetox.com, or try On-Line Gamers Anonymous at olganon.org.)

We suggest you remind Jeremy of the "Ring of Protection" he put on your finger. Now that you have his attention, talk to him about what else is important in his life and where the monthly subscription fee could be better used. Then find interesting things to distract him from the game and take a vacation away from the computer.

First of all, let's consider what would have happened if she'd written "doesn't pay attention to me or the children" instead of "plays World of Warcraft." That is her main complaint, right? Then, we'd require some clarification:

1. is this recent, or was he always uninterested in socializing or activities that you enjoy?
• if he's always been like this, why did you marry him and have two children with him?
• if this is recent, does his anti-social behavior coincide with gaming specifically or with, for instance, his stressful job? or any other event?
2. what happens on weekends?
3. have you taken an interest in the game? do you know how he tends to play it?

What I'm getting at here is that the gaming may be a symptom of a larger issue, and it does not have to be addiction. By blaming the game, we're ignoring the root cause(s). It's possible he was a perfect husband before World of Warcraft, and the game has destroyed his personality and good nature, but it seems... unlikely.

The reason for the last question is this; I can see three possibilities here, based on his style of play:

1) He plays mostly solo. This I think would be an indicator that he wants alone time, and doesn't want to speak to anyone (so it's not just you). I would talk to him about other stressors in his life.

Lulu: Like watching TV. It's probably a work thing then, right? Seems like he could be depressed.

Ashley: Right, or he has to spend so much time with people at work that he can't handle any more interaction at all.

2) He plays mostly with a large group of people (raiding, for example). This I would take to mean that he's socializing in the game, and doesn't need any "real life" socializing on top of that (yes, those are real people and real interactions. They're not less real just because they live far away and you don't see their faces).

Lulu: So like spending all his time at the bar with his buddies. But how do you solve that?

Ashley: I think the solution in this case is really weekends; there's no work to recover from, and he should be able to schedule in family time or chores or whatever it is she needs on Saturday/Sunday.

Lulu: So now they have to figure out a schedule? He's allowed x hours of game time and has to do these x family activities? She's going to be the one who has to enforce that, and that sounds boring. You know? The only thing you can tell her to do is try to manage him in some weird momlike way. The problem is she wants him to want to hang out with her.

Ashley: So much of it depends on existing family dynamics. What are these family activities? It's entirely possible he just doesn't want to do the stuff she picks out, but he'd be OK if he were the one to plan it.

Lulu: I see what you're saying. It's the scientific method, to rule out the possibility that the fun family activities he FOR SOME REASON sulks about are like, going to see the world's largest ball of twine for the fifth time.

Ashley: Yeah, after the first four times, maybe it's more fun to do the chessboard raid! It would also take some responsibility off her shoulders. So the kids eat peanut butter for all three meals on the weekend... it won't kill em. Probably.

Lulu: As long as she doesn't make it seem like she's punishing him with child care. She has to actually let him be the one responsible, no matter what he chooses to do.

Ashley: Although, it might be a weekend of "let's all play our favorite game!"

Lulu: "...Alone."

3) He plays with mostly one person. I'd assume this person is (or pretends to be) female. That would be an area of concern.

Lulu: And affair questions are out of our jurisdiction.

Ashley: Yes, let's not get into that. The real advice columnists have too much of a head start.

My point is that although he could very well be addicted to the video game, it's important to find out if he actually is, and in what way, and why. I would look at why he doesn't want to spend time with the wife/kids rather than why he wants to play a video game.

The letter-writer needs to be open to the idea that there's something she could do which would make it more hospitable for him in the real world. But if he doesn't want to change, or is just too fragile to exist in the real world without specific unreasonable requirements, then she needs to decide if she can live with it or not. It's not particularly relevant if he is an addict; you can't make someone shake an addiction if they don't want to try.

The video game itself is a symptom, not a problem. It's not weird to want to play a video game, any more than it is to want to spend hours zoned out in front of soap operas (what does the wife do for a hobby, by the way? Is it "read advice columns for an hour every day?" Cause that's my other hobby...).


Another example: From Dear Amy this time, but I can't seem to find the original, so linking to another discussion of the post that cites it in its entirety.

Dear Amy: I have been a happily married wife for almost three months. My husband and I have been together for eight years. Naturally, we have changed over time.

He is a very loving, attentive man, and I feel confident that he will be a superb father.

While I am working toward my master's degree in nursing, he continues to dabble in actuarial studies. I have been in school for more than a year and have a set career path. He has failed his first actuary test three times. This is strange because he graduated with stellar scholastic achievements and was inducted into Phi Beta Kappa. He says his dream is being an actuary.

Unfortunately, he spends massive amounts of time playing "World of Warcraft" instead of studying. He is upset that I don't support him in his endeavors. I told him I don't want to measure his successes as a person based on his salary, but many of the things we want in life, such as a house, will be based on our incomes.

I am interested in knowing if my frustrations are typical for any transitioning couple, or if my husband's "carefree attitude" is a phase and he will be more dedicated in getting settled in life.

—Concerned Wife

First off: nothing quite like saying "I don't want to measure successes based on salary" and then proceeding to do so. Road to Hell, Concerned Wife.

And the response:

Dear Concerned: By your description, your husband's current occupation is not that of a dedicated future actuary, but of an overgrown boy spending hours playing "WOW" while you advance your studies and plan for your shared future.

You are giving your guy way too much credit. I'll have to take your word for it, for instance, that this couch potato would make a "superb father." (Having opposable thumbs doesn't count.)

Your husband's online game-playing and possible addiction are what you and he should focus on.

Actuaries are students of risk. Your husband seems to have embraced that concept, but little else.

On the actuarial forum that I pulled the letter from, the response is tongue-in-cheek: "So who's getting heat at home for playing WOW and not studying for P?"

The thing is, this isn't even a good advice columnist response! To me, the guy sounds depressed; he's giving up on something he really loves because he can't seem to pass an exam. Have you never thought you were going to fail, and so didn't study so that you'd have an "excuse"? If he were avoiding studying in any other way, "get him screened for depression" is the standard response. The thing about video games (as opposed to say, retreating into tv-watching), is that they're a spectacular way to avoid real life, because it feels like you're accomplishing something. What a great way to get away from your failure and your depression! Playing video games does  not make someone a bad person; it does not mean he'll be a bad father (I'd be a bad mother, but it has very little to do with my video game "addiction").

Lulu: In one sense, I think it's a valid coping mechanism, because it's great to have something you're good at if you feel like there are things you're bad at but as the wife/Amy point out, if he isn't studying, he won't pass.

Ashley: hah! I was so incensed I didn't actually give any advice. I was all YOU ARE A HYPOCRITICAL ADVICE COLUMNIST SIR.

Lulu: I think he needs to make a serious commitment to passing or else decide it's not going to happen and come up with a new career goal. He can't keep going halfway. He doesn't have to stop playing, but he needs to find some way to make it a study break and not a study replacement, and she needs to be open to hearing that he doesn't really want to be an actuary, if that's how it turns out.

Ashley: Right. It kind of seems like she's ready for the Next Stage with House and Kids, and he maybe isn't. Especially if he's getting ready to admit that he has to change careers. But they got married, so he should communicate this to her.

Lulu: It seems like he's using the game to avoid (1) studying and (2) having a tough conversation where he disabuses her of various notions she has about him.

Ashley: He's no saint. But the game isn't to blame.

Lulu: Right, if it weren't the game, he'd be finding some other way to procrastinate and avoid. Watching TV, reading books, daydreaming. I'm guessing his gaming habits would change if he found a career or educational goal that made him feel good because he was good at it, but finding that would probably require them to put off the house and kids stuff while he got it figured out. Also, it would require him to get off his ass and do it.

Ashley: Details.

Lulu: Maybe he can farm gold in WoW!

Ashley: Can't compete with the Chinese in gold farming. It's a sad sad world.


*When men write to advice columnists about their wives/girlfriends who may be addicted, they usually legitimately seem to be. See, for instance: Wife Addicted to Warcraft, a Dear Amy submission.

When not to talk to your parents

We'll admit it: the main reason Ashley and I thought we'd be good at an advice column is that we play the "How would you answer this question?" game with existing advice columns. Sure, when we do that, we get to pick and choose which questions we answer. But, let's face it, advice columnists do tend to drop the ball sometimes on younger readers' questions.

Ask Amy, for example, has a tendency to side against teenagers or to always, by default, tell them to come clean to their parents, even when it isn't relevant and we don't think it would help. Take the second letter in this column from her archives. Basically, a 17-year-old girl flirted with her 24-year-old stylist during a hair appointment.

I loved the attention, so I wrote my phone number on his tip.When he actually called that night and asked me to meet him at a party in the city, I was totally taken aback and told him I was busy. He asked me to call him this weekend to set something else up.I'm freaking out because I have absolutely no desire to ever go out with a man six years older who seems to think it's fine for a high school girl to meet up with him on a Thursday night in the city! I can't tell my mom because he does her hair. I can never go back there. What if he calls again?

Amy, of course, advises her to tell her mom:

Of course you can tell your mom — and you should. We moms really don't like it when trusted adults hit on our daughters. I realize that many women absolutely love their hair stylists, but we love our daughters more. You can assume your mother will deal with him directly. [...]If this guy calls, tell him, "I'm sorry, I don't know what I was thinking. You're way too old for me. I only go out with guys my age."The "you're way too old for me" line will give this obnoxious guy something to think about.

We don't think it would. (This is an old column, but for the sake of argument, we'll pretend the drama is current.)

Ashley: She needs to learn how to deal with this situation, because it will come up again. It doesn't matter if you're 17 or 24.

Lulu: Right. She gave her number to a guy and then regretted it; it happens. Her mom doesn't need to be involved. The sooner she learns to do this on her own, the better.

Ashley: And there's nothing "obnoxious" about a guy asking out a girl who gave him her number. The age thing isn't so bad. In a year, she'll be 18. 18 and 25 is okay, I've seen that work. The age is a red herring. She just needs to turn him down.

Lulu: Not calling back is a tried and true way to make it clear you're not really interested.

Ashley: So is telling him.

Lulu: Sure. But given that he's put the ball in her court, I don't think she needs to go out of her way to turn him down.

Ashley: If she does talk to him again, she shouldn't give age as a reason. It would come off as weird.

Lulu: Right, and I feel like referencing her age would give him a foothold to make an argument, because it doesn't sound like a real answer. It feels like a line she's being fed by an adult. There are better, easier ways to blow someone off. "Sorry, I can't." "No thanks."

Ashley: "I really enjoyed talking to you the other day, but I'm actually seeing someone."

Lulu: I like that one. Even if she isn't, he can't disprove it. Even if she mentioned she was single when they flirted, she could have met someone since then. It happens! And it saves face for both of them.

Other times, columnists may give sound advice, but overlook glaring issues that would be relevant for teenagers. For example, we like that Dear Prudence once advised a 16-year-old not to tell her mother she was buying a vibrator. (Do you sense a theme?)

Masturbation is perfectly normal, and a teenager doesn't need to check in with her mother before engaging in it. It's wonderful that you and your mother are so close that you feel you can talk to her about this—but just because you can doesn't mean you should. Part of your job as a teenager is to start separating from your mother, and masturbation may be a good place for you to establish a zone of privacy.

We agree with this, but--while it's not stated directly--we suspect the letter writer may have been considering telling her mother because she couldn't think of any other way to acquire a vibrator. Some sex shops have minimum age requirements, and most people don't have access to a local sex shop--just the Internet. And while the Internet is a great resource, you need your own debit card to buy anything, and you need an address where people aren't likely to be too inquisitive about what packages you're receiving. Many sixteen-year-olds might not have this. The unasked question is, "Should I tell my mother, or if not, HOW do I get a vibrator?"

We think we would need more specifics about her situation to give her a good answer, but our advice, generally: since the mom in question is unlikely to freak out about the vibrator if she finds out about it, you don't have to go into super-stealth mode, just be evasive enough to give her plausible deniability. If you need to borrow her debit card, say you want to buy a bunch of stuff from drugstore.com, and throw a vibrator in with lots of little cheap things that add up. Makeup, in particular, can vary so much in price, that it can really mask an additional purchase. You heard it here first.

We do like the advice columns, and we think they do a lot of things well. Marriage and divorce questions, for example, are not really in our wheelhouse, and are often handled well. But younger writers are often dismissed because of their age or inexperience. Their time in life does affect some very important practical elements of their lives, but such as it's possible, it's appropriate for them to start handling their own drama.