How many thirteen year old girls does it take...

Lulu: So… A thirteen-year-old writes to Cherie because she shaved her pubes and now she has a doctor's appointment and her mom will find out:

Hey, Cherie!

I am age 13. I've never written to you before, and I never thought I would, but I don't know whom to ask. This question is a little personal. OK, here goes. Well, we get the Playboy channel at my house, and my little sister and I were watching it. It turned out every girl I saw on the program shaved down there and no one had any hair. My little sister, who is 7, even said they looked like her down there.

Well, recently, my friends and I had a sleep over, so we started watching adult stuff on my TV, and once again, I noticed none of the girls had hair down there! So then my friends and I decided it would be cool if we all shaved. So we all shaved down there, and at the time, it was funny and stuff, and we looked really cool afterwards. 

So here is my big problem. I am going to be a camp-counselor-in-training this summer, and my mom just told me I have to go have a physical before she can send in all the paperwork, and my physical is in two days! My mom will be in the doctor's office with me when I have my physical. She will see that I don't have any hair down there, and she will throw a hissy fit you will be able to hear in California. She is very, very overprotective. I tried to get the appointment changed so my hair could grow back in (Then I would just shave it again because even though it kind of itches, it looks so cool, and now I think hair down there is gross.), but my mom said no way, she had to wait three weeks to get this appointment. I'm not kidding, she is going to go ballistic. Help!

Lulu: And Cherie responds:

Hey, Hair Free!

Wanna hear something funny? 'K. When I was your age, the exact same thing happened to me, except it was about shaving my legs. Let us pause for a moment of silence as to not how far we have come but how low we have sunk.

Hair Free, you are not going to be turning hair-free cartwheels over my answer. And actually, neither is your mom. The first question that comes to mind is: With a 7- and 13-year-old in the house, why doesn't your mom block stuff like the Playboy channel from the TV? It's very easy to do, and yet for some unfathomable reason, most parents don't do it. Option No. 2 would be to only have TVs, like computers, in public places in your house until you are in high school.

That way your mom knows what you are watching and can discuss it with you.

This is exactly the kind of social pressure on young women that Dr. Mary Pipher talks about in her seminal book, "Reviving Ophelia." You didn't think "hair down there" was "gross" until you watched the Playboy channel. Trust me when I tell you that the Playboy channel is not representative of what is "cool" or is anything you should aspire to. They are women acting out roles, not being themselves. I bet you and your friends hate "fake" people, right? Right. It's like the most common teen dis. "She is so fake." Well, Playboy is not only so fake, but it's fake and putting on a fake show for guys. That is so much grosser than hair down there. 

To wax or not to wax it a question appropriate to someone much older than you. No way outta this one, girlfriend. Just tell your mom the truth. Fortunately, when it comes to something such as "hair down there," it grows back. And I'm guessing you and your mom would benefit from some one-on-one bonding time, anyway. I hope she reads this.

Lulu: Well, she's unrealistic if she thinks a kid is going to ask her mom to block the playboy channel.

Ashley: To say the least. And why is it taken as a given that her mom will be staring at her vagina during a physical? Is that normal??

Lulu: It seems to me that 13 is old enough to say,  "Mom, I don't want you in the room with me". Or, "I need my privacy".  My mom didn't come into the doctor's exam room with me when I was that age.

Ashley: Yeah, and actually, I can't remember having to remove my underwear  until they started doing pelvic exams.

Lulu: That's true. They don't usually do pelvics until you're like 16+, right? But if she's worried about it, I think she can ask her mom not to come in; I think a doctor/nurse would support that, since they like you to feel that you can be honest with them. In the bigger picture, I agree that if you look to the playboy channel for a model of how people can or should act, you'll get a skewed, unrealistic view. Everyone being shaved on playboy doesn't mean everyone is shaved in real life, but it's a personal choice... if you want to shave, why not?

Ashley: I don't particularly see a giant problem with it, either. Nor with the playboy channel in general - it's one of many influences.

Lulu: It seems to me that telling someone they shouldn't shave because it's tacky is just as bad as telling someone they should because it's sexy. It's all subjective, might as well do what makes you happy.

Ashley: Yeah, and I don't buy the "you didn't think it was gross until you watched the playboy channel" argument. I didn't think all sorts of things were gross as a child, but childhood innocence isn't gospel, or we'd all be picking our noses constantly.

Lulu: Kids who are looking for info about what sex is like need to know that porn is fiction, not documentary, but if you see something in fiction that inspires your fashion sense, that seems okay to me, like wanting Katniss's hairstyle or something.

Ashley: True! Of all the things she could have learned, that's probably the most harmless. If she thought she had to be super skinny or something, or wanted to change things that are impossible to change without major surgery, I’d be more with Cherie. If she were like, no one will love me unless I grow another foot and a half!

Lulu: Right.

Ashley: (in height, not in actual feet)

(3.5 feet would be awkward)

(i imagine)

 Lulu: Even if she gave as her reason for wanting to be shaved that guys would like it, that would be concerning. But she just says it looks cool (to her).

Ashley: And to her friends. Who all shaved as a group?

Lulu: Yeah, I don't get that. Did they go into the bathroom one at a time or did they just do it in a big room? With like bowls of soapy water?

Ashley: I’m not sure of the mechanics myself. Maybe I should watch the playboy channel?

The bad boys

All right. Let's do this.

Hey Cherie from March 24:

Here's my question: Is having the wrong friends better than having no friends at all?

Let me explain. I am the new kid in 10th grade... This is a school that is pretty small — less than 800 kids for the region. These kids are from families that don't move. Everyone has been here forever. Everyone knows each other. Everyone knows that I am the new kid. No one else has been new in like two years, and I am not exaggerating.

For a couple of months, I didn't have any friends at all. That sucked in a lot of ways. Then about two weeks ago, a group of kids who I would otherwise not be friends with somehow decided that I might be cool enough to hang out. They are into their cars and stuff but not grades and books. Some of them drink. I know some of them smoke 420 quite a bit. They are not at all like the kids I was friends with when I lived out west, but I don't live out west anymore.

So I guess my question is: is it better to be friends with these kids just so that I can have some kind of social life, even though they are not the kind of kids who would normally be my friends? Or should I put up with more months of being all alone in hopes of something better?

Cherie says:

New Kid, I'm going to give you some advice that some people might disagree with. I think it's fine to be friends with kids who want to be your friend, even if they're not like your friends when you lived out west. I think that you will find that at least one of these new friends could turn out to be a true friend — and be much deeper and more complex than you might expect.

It is easy to judge people, like books, by their covers. But books are not their covers — believe me, some great books have crappy covers! — and people are not always how they present themselves to the world. If you use good judgment and avoid activities that you wouldn't ordinarily do, I think that you'll do just fine. It's no fun to be alone.

Ashley: She... she says things I agree with!!

Lulu: Yes!! I was nodding along when she said the LW will probably find some value in the people if he spends more time with them.

Ashley: Yeah. Also it's like jobs: easier to find one if you have one, even a crappy one. You can meet other people who're tangentially part of the group.

Lulu: The one thing that's weird is "avoid activities you wouldn't ordinarily do"--I mean, no, if you do that, you'll be stuck at fifteen forever. Part of the open-mindedness Cherie is talking about is letting yourself try new things. I think what she means is "avoid activities you object to on moral or legal grounds."

Ashley: Well, what she means is "don't smoke pot."

Lulu: Right. And being friends with people doesn't mean becoming them. I've definitely been in groups where I was "the one who doesn't drink" or "the one who doesn't smoke" and they just thought it was quaint. It's possible as long as you're nonjudgmental. Or if you say you're straightedge.

Ashley: Or if you make up for it by hotwiring cars.

Rodent choice follow-up

We have been chatting and will post again soon, I promise! In the meantime, this small cool thing. In the comments of our Rodent Choice post, in support of my rodent choice of the noble rat, I linked to an article about hero rats that sniff out landmines and tuberculosis. It turns out you can donate to buy hero rats bananas and exercise wheels! Wow!

Gaming the job application test

Today, a teen job hunter in Hey Cherie is confounded by her first encounter with those lame job application personality tests.

Q. I am a 16-year-old girl who is applying for an after-school job at a supermarket... I talked to the assistant manager, and she told me that I should fill out an online application. I went to the website and did all the easy stuff, like what my job history was (not much!) and where I am in school. That part was easy.

The hard part was what came afterward. There were all kinds of questions of psychology with multiple choices. Things like, did I like to talk to strangers? If I saw someone slacking on the job, would I tell him or her off? Do I like to work as part of a team or on my own?

Cherie, these questions stumped me. I didn't know the right answers, so I haven't send in the application yet. I have talked to my friends, but they all have conflicting ideas about how to answer these kinds of questions.

A. In the olden days, back when your parents were teens and trilobites roamed the earth, applying for a job was pretty straightforward. You filled out a written application and did your follow-up. Now it's a lot trickier with online applications.

First of all, answer every question. As you do, think about what your employer wants in an employee. If it's a supermarket, your boss will want you to be neat, clean, presentable, work in a team, and know that your every move is a way of representing the company.


Have you ever stopped going to a business because of a rude employee? When that happens, not only do you stop going, but you also tell your friends that you are not going anymore. There is a negative ripple effect that all employers justifiably want to avoid.

So, think about your answers to those psychological multiple-choice questions from the point of view of your new boss. That will make all your answers easier.

Lulu: I mean, as far as I recall from doing this kind of application, it's usually pretty straightforward. Say NO I NEVER STEAL.

Ashley: Except that if you're too perfect, that gets flagged too.

Lulu: Does it? I know on like, the MMPI, it does, but on a standard job application test? I feel like they usually want you to superhumanly saintly.

Ashley: Say you never steal, that's fine. But if you say you never lie, that's not believable.

Lulu: Once I had one where it tried to trick you into thinking stealing was normal. "What is the cash value of the items you have stolen from your employer in the last year?"

Ashley: I have stolen things worth ZERO DOLLARS.

Lulu: I just stole people's hearts! And pens. They have like no resale value right?

Ashley: If it's directly job-related like stealing, then you definitely should say you never steal.

Lulu: It also seems from the question she cited that they are looking for her MBTI personality type: the "Do you work best individually or as a team?" "Do you see the forest or the trees?" kind of questions. In that case, I would guess what personality type they're looking for and answer that way (for a supermarket job: ESTJ?), but I know MBTI well enough to see through the test. But Cherie's advice, to try to imagine what kind of person they are looking for and answer as that person, applies.

Ashley: Yeah. Although I still think "individually AND as a team" is the right answer for every. job. ever.

Lulu: This ehow article on how to answer these kinds of questions is pretty comprehensive and straightforward. They provide sample questions and correct answers:

I work my best under pressure.
()True
()False

Most people will second-guess this question and think "Well, if I answer 'true', then they'll expect me to work extra hard." Remember, it's just an assessment. The score is interpreted as a raw number. The individual answers have no bearing on your job placement; the only thing that's important is that the answers are right. Therefore, when a question like this arises, always answer favorably.

They seem to think that you can't be too perfect--that the software isn't actually subtle enough to include or identify lie-catcher questions. My feeling is that for the most part the kind of test used by a supermarket, and the people interpreting the results, may be too unsubtle to notice an overabundance of perfection. You don't want to be screened out for being too honest on the test to find out if you are a liar!

Ashley: Some of them are weird, too, because there are factually-correct answers that are not what they want. You're supposed to strongly disagree that "Most teenagers go through a shoplifting phase," but that's a fact! You can't disagree with a fact!

Lulu: Well, for the purposes of the test, you'll just have to learn! And to go to a bizarre place of moral rigidity. Oooh, here's an answer key!

Ashley: Ha ha. This is the most useful post we've ever done.

Sister Love

I don't like to keep beating up on the same columnist week after week, but (1) Hey Cherie is right in our wheelhouse, focused on kids and (2) Cherie never answers the freaking question. From today:

I'm a girl in eighth grade and I'm sick of my older sister falling in love.

My sister is in 10th grade. I admit that she is much cuter than I will ever be, but not in a scary way that makes boys not want to approach her. Instead, she is pretty in a way that makes boys want to talk to her. She also has the reputation of being very nice, and I think it is deserved.

She is always very nice to me, and she is even nice when boys ask her out and she is not interested. She says no in a way that does not hurt them. I know this because I have seen her do it.

The problem is, with all these boys around her, my sister is constantly in love. She has had about 12 boyfriends since the start of ninth grade, which works out to a boyfriend every six weeks or so. And my sister in love is not a pretty sight. She goes head over heels in love. The boy is the center of her world. She is always on her cell or on instant message with him. She always says that this boy is special.

They are always gone in a few weeks or a few months. I ask her what happened. She always says, "it just didn't work out."

It is extremely annoying to see your older sister walking around with moon eyes all the time.

Cherie responds:

A steady diet of honey on top of cane sugar on top of Splenda on top of molasses on top of Equal on top of sorghum (look it up!) on top of fructose would be enough to send even the most stable-blooded person to the doctor for treatment of diabetes. However, everyone finds their own path to the L-word: Love.

In your case, it sounds like there has not yet been a boyfriend who blew you away and made the world seem like it rested on a pedestal of him, him, him and him. I think you would have mentioned this guy in your letter if there was, and you would have drawn the stark contrast of how you are in love compared to how your sister is when she's in love.

Perhaps, you would revise your letter to me after your first serious boyfriend. Perhaps not.

Your sister's path to love involves a whole lot of boyfriends. She sounds like a really nice person. I think she's entitled to find her own way, the same way you will be entitled to find her own way. Do understand that if she finds herself sexually involved with boy after boy, that's a whole different story!

Ashley: So... she didn't actually say anything.

Lulu: Except to state that things are different if there's sex involved or if there isn't, but not what to do in each case.

Ashley: I guess... stop hanging out with your sister?

Lulu: I mean, yeah: you can't change someone's annoying behavior, you can only control how much you expose yourself to it or get invested in it.

Ashley: It just seems like the girl spends too much time paying attention to her sister if she's so annoyed by how in love she is. Maybe she needs friends or a hobby!

Lulu: She describes how her sister is better than her in all ways, so it seems like she is looking for something to dislike. I feel like this would also be alleviated with a good hobby. If we take her at her word that she's not as nice or pretty as her sister, maybe it would help to explore some skills which do not require being nice or pretty, such as mathletes or boxing.

Ashley: Yeeees. I wasn't sure what to do with her comments about how her sister was better than her, and neither did Cherie.

Lulu: Yeah. I mean, it seems like there are two components to her particular dislike of her sister's lovesick tendencies: (1) it drives home how much more lovable her sister is than her; (2) it annoys her because she knows how it's going to end and her sister never seems to learn. For (1) I would say that the number of boys you date isn't necessarily a good indicator of your worth. As she notes, her sister has the particular looks and personality to attract a lot of guys, and she seems to enjoy dating so she cultivates that, but, you know--see (2): it brings her an endless cycle of dating and breaking up, and it kind of seems--from the LW's comments--that that is not what she wants for herself.

Ashley: It is possible to be jealous of another person's happiness if you think you'll never be happy, even if their form of happiness is not what you'd choose.

Lulu: Definitely. But the fact that that form of happiness isn't what she would choose could maybe provide some kind of comfort? In any case, it does seem like she has to look for happiness via another path, and try not to be too jealous of the sister; she undoubtedly has her own problems.

Ashley: Yep yep. As for the second letter--

If I have a book report that's assigned on a book of my choice from free reading, and I read a bunch of unassigned books over the summer but don't really feel like reading a book now, is it OK if I do a report on a book I read last summer?

Ashley: Yeah, it's fine.

Rodent Choice

I like the second question (the "kid question") in today's Hey Cherie because it's unusual.

Hey Cherie,

If you had to choose between a gerbil, a hamster, a white mouse, a white rat or a guinea pig for a pet, which would you choose? I am in fifth grade and am allowed to get one of them, but I can't make up my mind. I want to choose by the weekend.

--Rodent Choice

I hope the LW means this weekend, but I suspect it's a weekend that passed long ago. This is clearly the kind of question where you just give an arbitrary answer, and Cherie says she will but then doesn't.

Hey Rodent!

Easy question gets an easy answer. I would choose the one that makes the least amount of noise running on his or her wheel at 2 in the morning. Go for the tame rodent and the well-oiled wheel.

As for me? I'll take guppies any day of the week.

Lulu: That's not an easy answer. We can do this, guys! GO! PICK A RODENT!

Ashley: I think guinea pig. They have cute noses.

Lulu: White rat. Rats are badass.

Darnell: White mouse. I don't have a reason, I have no idea what the difference between any of those are.

Okay, so I guess the random arbitrary response approach doesn't work when there are multiple respondents. So here's what you do, kiddo. You want to google "rodents as pets" or "what rodent makes the best pet." I just did and got this handy comparison. If you wanted to be orderly about it, you could make a chart comparing cuteness, difficulty to care for, how well they do alone (if your parents will really only allow one discrete animal), and how well they interact with humans (if you want to take it out of the cage and cuddle it rather than just watching it scurry around). My champion, white rats, seem to score high on all those measures except that they are social so you would probably need to be allowed to get two, like Pinky and the Brain. Hamsters seem to be the only ones that do well alone.

If I were you I'd clarify from the parents if it would be possible to get two animals of the same type in one cage. If they say no argue that in that case several animals including your FAVORITE, the noble WHITE RAT, are disqualified then because they need company, and it would be cruel to get just one. If they still say no get a hamster.

DONE. WITH RESEARCH.

Three Letter Thursday!

Darnell told me this week feels slackish on MID, even though there was a twenty minute podcast, so yesterday, we discussed three (3) columns!

Afterschool Special Slumber Party

In yesterday's Hey Cherie, a girl described a slumber party I don't even believe because it seems too YA novel perfect: each girl was dealing with a different Issue Teens Face Today!

Hey, Cherie!

This is different from the usual letters that you probably get. I was having a slumber party with a bunch of my girlfriends. We are all in 10th or 11th grade. We were all downstairs in the basement, and my parents' room is upstairs on the second floor. The door to the basement was closed, so there was no way that anyone could listen to what we were saying.

Darnell: Well, it starts off sexy.

We made up a game called "What My Mother Doesn't Know." ... We just went around the group and each of us had to confess things that our mothers didn't know.

Here are some of the things that we all heard. One girl had been to Planned Parenthood to end a pregnancy and didn't tell her mother. Another had done ecstasy more than once. Another had cheated on a big math test in order to keep her grade up to an A. Another binged and barfed at least once a week. Someone talked about a Facebook boyfriend she had in another state. I heard a girl say that while her mom was on vacation, she took her mom's car and drove it 50 miles. Someone drove their own car 100 miles an hour. Someone else was a secret smoker (none of us knew that!).

I think you get the idea. Here is my question: How much do you think a teen girl should tell her mother about her life? Is it OK to keep the bad stuff secret? Is it OK to have any secrets? And how do you decide what to tell your mother, especially if you will end up being punished for what you reveal?

Cherie Bennett, the writer of this column, is herself a YA novelist, so she of course enjoyed this scenario.

This is one of the best letters I've received in the more than 14 years of writing this column. Fourteen years, 52 columns a year and two questions per column. You do the math! But I digress.

Different people, different cultures, different families and different sets of ethics mean that different people — and I count teens as people! — have different feelings about openness and honesty with parents. All I can share with you is my sense of it, which may be different from your sense or your mom's sense.

When it comes to me, I want to know. I would want to know all those things. If I don't know, how can I guide you through the minefield of growing up in the 21st century? Knowing is so important to me that I would consider a no-punishment rule if that's what it took to get my teen to talk to me. That is, I'd rather know and not impose a punishment than not know, hear about it later, and then punish. I understand many could feel legitimately different.

No matter what? Share as much as you can. I think you'll find most parents remember that they were teens, too. Parents had their secrets and they're pretty darn good listeners. Most of all, we care.

Darnell: Wow, she counts teens as PEOPLE. This is the most open-minded advice columnist ever.

Lulu: Right?

Darnell: This advice is terrible and vague at the same time.

Lulu: Yeah, it's not really advice. The question is "How much do I have to tell my mother?" and she answers as a mother, how much she would want to know; but I kind of feel like what she wants as a mother is not necessarily good advice for the kids. Parental instinct is to protect your kids but at 16 and 17 they need to start working stuff out for themselves.

Darnell: There is a bulemic in that group. Isn't that one of those things that after school specials teach us to tell people about, due to potential serious health issues?

Lulu: Yeah, in that case, if it's something where the girl needs a health professional, then she has to tell her parents so they can make an appointment for her. Sexual health is a possible exception since you can go anonymously through Planned Parenthood, like the girl who got the abortion. It sounds like she handled things well.

Darnell: I'm going to go secret by secret!

Planned Parenthood - I don't see the need to tell anyone about this. Aborting babies shows adult responsibility!

Ecstasy - Definitely no, parents are not understanding cuddlebears when it comes to drug use.

Cheated on a test - Good for her!

Binged and barfed - Yes? This seems like the one thing on the list that is dangerous, a regular habit, and something parents might actually deal with well?

Facebook boyfriend - I guess you could! I think she should have lost the game for having a boring secret. Maybe that girl should have a serious talk with her parents about how to be more interesting.

Secret driver - Rapscallion behavior and teenage rebellion loses its shine if you scuff your feet and admit it to your parents afterwards.

Speeding - Maybe tied for lamest secret. Do not tell anyone ever again.

Smoker - Nah, just stop doing that, it is gross.

Advice given!

Lulu: Okay! Thanks, Darnell.

Valium Frontal Assault

The second letter in yesterday's Dear Prudence also piqued my interest, touching on issues of impaired behavior, consent issues, and oral hygiene.

Last week, I had impacted wisdom teeth removed. A good friend from work agreed to pick me up after the procedure and drive me to the bus station. We're both younger and single and have many shared interests outside of work, except I'm a gay man and my friend is a straight man.

The dentist used intravenous sedation, and I remember nothing of the procedure or drive afterward—my first memory was getting off the bus at my stop. But the next day at work, my friend said that I was very sexually aggressive with him after he picked me up. He says I put my hands down his pants and he even had to stop the car.

My friend has been distant for the last week at work, and we haven't hung out since the incident. Needless to say, I'm embarrassed and horrified. While my friend is attractive, I would never make any sexual advances toward him (except, apparently, when coming off a Valium drip). I want to continue our good working relationship and friendship, but now he's creeped out by me or, worse, thinks I have a secret crush on him. How should I go about addressing this situation and repairing our relationship?

Prudence comes down strongly on an unexpected side.

I don't give a pass to people who try to excuse their bad behavior by saying they drank so much they no longer were aware of their actions. But that does not apply to the I.V. drip. I was knocked out for a medical procedure recently, and my husband said I babbled incoherently on the way home in the car, then fell asleep midsentence. Once home, I apparently asked my daughter repeatedly, and with increasing agitation, where she was going while she was simply standing in front of me. I remember none of this.

The reason medical offices release recently sedated people only to responsible adults is because patients could find themselves in deep trouble trying to make their way home solo. Your friend should never have dropped you off at the bus—you're lucky the Valium didn't prompt you to grope a fellow rider. He should have been thoughtful enough to take you home and make sure you were safely tucked into bed, no matter what kind of crazy stuff you were doing and saying about going to bed together.

You need to tell him that you're concerned your friendship has been damaged by your Valium-addled mental state. Reiterate that you have no memory of any of this, and now that your wisdom teeth are out, you plan to stay far away from I.V. sedation. If he remains cool, then he's just the kind of jerk who would dump an ailing friend at a bus stop.

Darnell: Prudence is a little harsh on the victim of sexual assault.

Lulu: I know!!

Darnell: Unintentional or not, that guy was well within his rights to remove himself from that situation as quickly as possible.

Lulu: Yeah, if someone is groping you, you are not required to take it if they are drugged. That's only true in the romance novels that I read.

Darnell: I think she has a good point that the guy should be more forgiving after the fact, and differentiating between drunken behavior and medically induced drugged behavior. If you get yourself drunk it is easy to shrug it off and say, "Well I was loaded!", but you do get yourself that way, usually on purpose.

Lulu: Right. This wasn't his fault. He may not even have had a choice of anesthetics if the case was especially bad, which it sounds like this was. Man, his mouth is probably still sore.

Darnell: Still, I feel like people should forgive drunken behavior, mostly because that is a stance I require to still have friends. You can't judge it cleanly without knowing the parties involved, but there is probably some homophobia in the mix there.

Lulu: Yeah? my thought was that there was probably some secret crush in the mix there.

Darnell: Probably a little bit of both.

Lulu: You probably wouldn't hit on someone you were totally unattracted to, even while drugged. But the fact that your friend is a little attracted to you doesn't mean you can't be friends. Which is a stance I require in order to have friends (WINK!)

Darnell: The number of people who are okay with gay is much larger than the number of people who are okay with gay when it is pointed at them. Because you can point gay at people, like a loaded gun. A loaded gun filled with rainbow bullets.

Lulu: Meh. I think it's legit if the driver's just upset at being groped.

Darnell: I'd lay good odds that if the LW was a lady, the driver would have still be uncomfortable in the moment but more willing to laugh it off the next day. I have seen this situation with a straight dude sober and a drunken drunken lady, and it was definitely more laughable than a serious offense.

Lulu: Hm. But if the driver were a lady (and the LW a straight man), she might be more creeped out. Maybe it depends on the relative physical strength of the parties involved???

Darnell: It could be! Science! I will make a chart!

Sober	Intoxicated
	Dude	Lady
Dude	Creeped out and remains creeped out (situation in this letter)	Maybe creeped out, quickly forgiving
Lady	Creeped out and remains creeped out (according to Lulu)	????

Lulu: Yeah, i dunno about lady/lady either. I guess it depends on the people, which is maybe true of all of these things.

Darnell: If a lady you weren't attracted to started groping on you while drunk or in a drugged haze, how would you feel?

Lulu: Who is this lady?

David: Patricia Heaton.

Lulu: Oh. I guess I would forgive her. I would be creeped out in the moment but I wouldn't hold it against her if she apologized.

Darnell: She is the darling of early evening television. Man, Prudence's advice is absolutely going to crush the friendship if the LW takes it. She is at least implying that the LW should be angry at the driver. Anger is not the emotion to bring to this conversation.

Lulu: True. If you're asking forgiveness, you need to be forgiving yourself.

Darnell: The LW can't even bring the attitude that he is forgiving the driver to that conversation. That might result in the sitcom situation where the party in the wrong is like, "Hey, I apologize for my terrible behavior... now don't you have something to say to me?"

Lulu: Yeah. It is weird for the columnist to take someone who is not angry and give them reasons they should be angry!

Darnell: Prudence, more like STEWdence... because of... stewing... in anger.

Lulu: No.

Darnell: No, not at all.

Lulu: So what is our advice? Do nothing, hope for the best?

Darnell: My advice is to apologize, if he hasn't already, the letter doesn't actually say. Make motions towards continued friendship in a space-giving way, group activities and the like. Sometimes you did kill the frienship though. If that doesn't work out, time to move on. Oh, and try to avoid situations that involve impaired judgment if you are going to hang out.

Lulu: I agree. And he needs to avoid any behavior that makes it seem like he has a secret crush, including but not limited to vehemently denying that he has a secret crush.

Vibrant Young Spinster

Ashley joined us just in time to mock me for being single as we discussed Love Letters.

Are some people just not meant for relationships? Here is a glimpse into my past:

In high school and most of college I dated many guys, generally for two months, from all walks of life: older, younger, the athlete, the nerd, the "gangsta," the preppy, the lead singer of a band, guy in the military, the cable guy, the nice guy, and the jerk. If you are wondering, I was only intimate with a select few at an older age. The one true relationship that counted lasted 9 months... Typically, I wind up losing interest after a few weeks and end it.

Present: today I consider myself very successful, confident, and independent at the age of 25. I work for a world-wide company and travel. Recently I have sworn into the United States Reserves and leave for boot camp very soon.

Future: My long-term goals include a career switch, continuing with the Reserves, and living in Massachusetts or the New England area. I feel very fortunate and proud to have accomplished all of this but I feel there is a piece missing. Perhaps the missing piece is a partner to share and enjoy life with.

I am afraid that my life will never calm down enough to share it with someone else. Everyone seems to be clingy nowadays. I am very independent and like to do my own thing but not necessarily 24/7 by any means. Maybe that could change if I met the right person. Friends have said that I need someone who will challenge me, be my equal, and have the same or very similar interests. Should I just live and enjoy my 20s even though I feel something is missing? Am I too independent? Should I be concerned that I hardly ever fall or "settle" for someone? It seems like everyone else I know can be happy or settle with someone. I just feel lost in this whole matter or that I am doing something wrong.

I don't actually have a problem with Meredith Goldstein's response.

You've dated a bunch of people, WIESD. You're 25. You're about to leave for boot camp. You're single and wondering why.

My thought is -- thank goodness you haven't met someone awesome. This isn't the right time. Maybe soon, but not now.

Now, everyone is going to tell you that you're whining about nothing, but before they do, let me remind them that there are some significant feelings going on here. Just because a person isn't ready to be serious with someone doesn't mean they can't get lonely. Loneliness can be overwhelming. It can make a person believe that they'll never be understood, that they'll never get out of their solitary hole, and that the rest of the world is experiencing something they'll never get their hands on.

Don't let the loneliness scare you. It doesn't mean that you'll never meet anyone. It doesn't mean that you're not capable. And being in the Reserves -- well, you'll be meeting people who share your motivation and drive. That sounds pretty promising to me.

The present doesn't stand for anything but the present. You're not doing anything wrong. It just takes time.

Darnell: Loneliness is a tough one!

Ashley: Yeah. I think that's a question for Lulu. Since losing interest after several weeks is what Lulu does best.

Lulu: Thanks. Thanks for that.

Ashley: In ALL OF HER ENDEAVORS.

Lulu: Ha. Okay, well that's fair. Well, the thing is, I'm 25, and so is the LW. So I'm not coming to this from a grown up "oh you are so young, you are a BABY, don't sweat it" place. But: she is so young. Or he. It's a girl, right?

Ashley: I think girl, yeah. Presumably an openly gay man isn't joining the Reserves.

Darnell: Who has a successful life AND joins the Reserves?

Lulu: Not only is she young, but her life is in flux; it's not like she has a salary job in a small town somewhere and plans to stay there. In her circumstances, it's silly to think, "The way things are now is the way it will always be."

Darnell: In the same vein though, the idea that you'll eventually meet the right person when the time is right is laughably false.

Lulu: I agree, and it could be that she will never meet someone and will be single forever. But if she wants to have a relationship, she will probably eventually have an opportunity for that.

Darnell: If you don't make room for it in your life, those chances go up significantly.

Lulu: I dunno - I think it's fine for her to keep busy and keep her eyes open. No point in leaving Friday night open (just in case!!!!), that's just leaving the door open to wallow in self pity. If and when you meet someone you will be able to choose what other things in your life you want to blow off.

Ashley: Yeah, I think generally I'd rather fill my life with stuff and then give some of it up, than to leave it available for Someone To Come Along. But then again Galahad is busy a lot of the time. Saving kittens, etc.

Lulu: It seems like the LW would appreciate someone who is also busy a lot of the time. That seems do-able.

Darnell: There are plenty of busy people, they are just hard to meet.

Lulu: Yeah? I seem to exclusively meet busy people. People who are busy on Friday. Washing their hair. The people I meet have a lot of hair care needs, apparently.

Anna: I meet busy people at events, and then I never see them again. But I'm not looking for a romantic partner.

Lulu: But the LW's question isn't "How do I meet people" so much as "Is there something fundamentally wrong with me such that I will never settle down?" And to that I say probably not. A good percentage of the people in the world do eventually settle down, at least for awhile, in a long-term relationship, and the fact that you are flighty and single at 25 is not necessarily an indicator of the future. Lots of people are flighty and single at 25. LOTS OF PEOPLE. DAMMIT.