Wait, hold on a sec, Cupid

I had so many thoughts about a call to the latest Savage Love podcast that I did a hasty partial transcription for you, just so you can read it.

Caller said:

Hi, Dan. I'm a twenty-something lesbian and I have an odd situation... I recently made this friend, we were Internet friends, we became real-life friends, it's not something I normally do. We hung out maybe ten times, maybe half of those just one-on-one, and I found out that she thinks we're dating. There's no reason for her to think we're dating... We haven't kissed. I think we hugged once, and it was an A-frame, pelvises away, platonic hug, and I think once I put my hand on her knee. That's literally all the physical contact we've had, and I didn't think we were dating! We never called what we were doing dates, and we weren't really flirting. I've hung out with her with other friends, and they think it's absolutely insane that she thinks we were dating. [Caller continues describing how the girl presents as straight, how she found out about her misconceptions about the dating originated when the girl's friends referred to her on the phone as "her other half," and other specifics, until call fades out]

Dan's response, also poorly transcribed and edited for brevity:

Maybe she would have told her herself that she thought you believed that you two dating if she had been able to get a word in edgewise... The problem's very simple. All you have to do is tell her that you are not dating and you don't know how she got that impression and you don't mean to hurt her, and if you did anything to mislead her or make her think you were dating you apologize, but, "just to, like, clear the air and settle the matter, you and I are not an item." The end! Very simple. ...There's no way to avoid hurting the delusional fantacist. She needs to get hurt, in this instance, to get over it, meaning misappropriating friends and relabeling them as girlfriends and presenting them that way to other people.

Lulu: So here's my thing about this one. How did these people meet online? It matters! Was it though a message board, online game, or fandom, for example, where it's about some common interest, or was it through a "meet people" website like OKC or CL? If they met on OKC and the girl assumed they were dating when they kept hanging out, that doesn't seem that unreasonable.

Ashley: I don't think it makes her a crazy person to assume that, certainly.

Lulu: Even if the caller's profile said she was only looking for friends and activity partners or whatever. Nobody reads anyone's entire profile. Maybe she got to "6 things I could never live without: Cuban food, my family, ninjas, ninja stars, classic NES games" and just had to message her.

Ashley: You have experience in this area?

Lulu: Not at all. You know, even if it was an interest-based friendship like they were PM'ing each other on the official Friends of the Daily Jumble Chat Room, it's not necessarily insanity. I mean, the girl knew the caller was gay, and she seemed to be affectionate; maybe Quickdraw Dategirl assumed she would be the one putting on the brakes, if anyone one. Maybe it didn't occur to her that the caller wasn't interested.

Ashley: You have experience in this area.

Lulu: For sure. Look, it's weird meeting people from the internet. There's no official protocol. Many people have exclusively dating-based experiences. Even those who don't might start to feel like it's a date just because of the nervousness and pressure of this weird one-on-one meeting that you usually don't encounter in a casual friend type scenario. The expectations for how datey a particular meet-up is going to be vary wildly.

Ashley: And lesbians are weird.

Lulu: Right, I mean both the internet meetup thing and the lesbians thing create levels of ambiguity because the unspoken social rules are not as well established as for straight meet-through-friends-or-at-the-grocery-store type dating. So like yeah as a hopeful internet dater, you should not assume you are in a relationship with people without a clear green light from the other person... but I get how the signals could get crossed.

Ultimately, our advice is pretty similar to Dan's--make the situation clear, if you haven't already--gently, even apologetically, but firmly and unambiguously.

And yes, if you meet someone you'd like to date from the internet, the onus is on you to be clear about your intentions (and not to assume the other person is on the same page). However, if someone you meet from the internet appears to be flirting, or if you're not sure, it couldn't hurt to bring up the topic. It doesn't have to be a The Talk, especially if you're not sure what they're thinking. Here are some terrible examples!

"I've met some really great people through my profile. I'm glad I put 'friends only'; it really takes the pressure off meeting up to know it's not going anywhere romantic." [NB: only if you met through a "friends only" profile.]

"I was skeptical about meeting people from online, but we've become such good friends... I still can't imagine dating someone I didn't meet in person first, though." [NB: only if you do not have an active dating site profile.]

"So I've been seeing this awesome girl..." [NB: This may be too mean.]

"I really love being single." [NB: This may also be too mean, and may backfire if the listener perceives it as a coded way of saying "I really love casual sex."]

Or a variation of this one, which worked on Lulu: "It's so important to meet people in person. You can email and email and never know if it's a friends vibe or a dating vibe. Then, you see the person, and you pretty much both know instantly if you're going to end up making out that night."

Or even: "You're such a good friend." [NB: Definitely too mean!]

What it takes to get along

Yesterday's Cary Tennis dealt with money in relationships.

I have been dating a wonderful man for six years... I could see myself marrying this man.

Here is the rub: He is cheap. Not thrifty, CHEAP. Since we started dating, we have split everything (meals, gas, etc.) but we both make about the same salary and I was raised to pay for myself so this never bothered me. What bothers me is when he picks up a stamp for me while he is at the post office and then asks me for the 44 cents. What bothers me is that when he comes to my place for dinner (about five nights a week), he doesn't bring anything. If we go to a party thrown by his friends, he expects me to help pay for the wine we bring, but if we go to a party thrown by my friends, I'm on my own to pay for it. If I run out of money and need to borrow a dollar, he is damn sure to get that dollar back from me. He won't go certain places if he has to drive (even a few blocks) because he doesn't want to pay for gas. It's crazy. This is unlikely an actual money issue as he came from a well-to-do family, has enough money to live comfortably and frequently buys himself very nice things. ...

He will go out of his way for me: He is very generous to me with his affection and time. But, when it comes to cash, he is just absurdly cheap, and his strange deal with money makes me think that there is some deeply selfish side to him that is being reflected in this cheapness. ...

Am I making a mountain out of a molehill or is his cheapness indicative of some bigger problem? If so, how do I possibly bring this up to him without sounding like a gold digger?

This is one of Cary's longwinded days, so I'm providing only excerpts of his response.

You could give him an invoice.

He might dispute some charges. For instance, on the

bottle of wine for the party: 1/2

he might dispute his share because he didn't drink any of it. You would have to say: Note the

category: gifts.

On the postage stamp thing, if you give him a postage stamp, bill him

$USD 0.44 first class postage, 1

Give him a monthly invoice of all the charges for which he is in arrears. See if he will write you a check for those things.

If you're going to marry each other you're going to be using money together all the time. You're going to be eating together and buying groceries and cars.

You are going to have to get to know what money means to each of you...

Here is something you can do together about money that may be fun:

Put a jar on the kitchen counter.

When he comes over for dinner, ask him to put any spare change he has into the jar. Say it is a jar you are saving money into so that you and he can go do something cool. Then when the jar is full you and he can take the money out and go into the world together and do something cool with the change you saved in a jar on the kitchen counter. ...

It's just money.

Make it about the money. Don't make it about the relationship or his attitudes or his cheapness. ...

He pays his bills, right? He gets invoices and pays them? He probably scrutinizes them but he pays them because he recognizes them as legitimate. Maybe he does not recognize the bringing of wine to a party as legitimate. So you could explain to him that wine is the money of friendship. It is money in the economy of the friend. In the economy of the friend, we pretend that money is not the issue, because we like to have this primitive fantasy that friendship exists when we are cavemen, before money was invented, because we are still tribal in our friendships and no other countries exist; there is no France or England, there is only our cave or our tent into which we invite you if you bring a Snickers bar or a bottle of burgundy. ... [a lot of stuff about friends vs. credit companies, social class, and capitalism] ...

We say, "It isn't about the money." But it is about the money. To say it isn't about the money is to demean money. Like money isn't important. But money is very important. Money is just slippery and hard to deal with, but it is the issue. We say, it's not about the money, it's about fairness. It's about not being cheap. Or it's about attitudes. But attitudes toward what? It's his attitude toward money.

He loves you. It's not his attitude toward you. He doesn't think this is about you. He thinks this is about money. And it is. It's about your attitude toward money and his attitude toward money. ...

So the one approach is to invoice him. And the other approach is to get into what money means.

Ashley: Cary Tennis says "money" a lot.

Lulu: Suggested theme song for today's Cary Tennis: "Mony Mony" by Billy Idol. Or "Money" by Pink Floyd, but that might be a little too on the money.

Ashley: Stop saying money, it's creeping me out.

Lulu: So but I mean I think the invoice idea is good, actually. Even if it's not that formal, just holding him to the same exacting standards that he holds her to. Personally I prefer a relationship where you just lend each other money whenever, and don't keep track, but clearly he prefers the "keep perfect records" strategy, and if he can dish it out, he's got to be able to take it.

Ashley: I was going to recommend the opposite approach: a joint account. Since they make about the same salary, they can figure out how much their time is worth, right? If they figure out how much time they're wasting on this shit, they can figure out how much money they'd save by not doing it. Just be like, "how much money are you comfortable giving up for mutual convenience"? They could start small, at like $5 each.

Lulu: I agree. When you factor in the time it costs you to save this or that tiny amount, it often makes more sense just to pay more for convenience. But people who are super weird about money tend not to buy the time argument.

Ashley: Feh.

Lulu: But a joint account for shared purchases might be a good idea anyway, since from her description, it seems like he'd be more likely to pay himself back for money borrowed from the joint than he would be to pay her back for money he borrowed. It could cause more arguments, though. "Why did you buy that bottle of wine out of the joint account? They're your friends."

Ashley: I'm saying to use it as giving up the money. So even if they DO spend it on themselves, that is an amount of money you've decided not to care about.

Lulu: I think that's what Cary Tennis is getting at with the change jar, too--just get him to let go of some money, as an exercise. But it just makes me tired thinking about dating this guy--even if this is only his weird money hangup and not a general trend of selfishness. Look, I wouldn't keep track of who paid for what dinner and how much they relatively cost, but if I was dating someone who squared up each account nicely, sometimes asking for more money and sometimes giving me more money, that would be fine. It's the fact that he doesn't pay her back that bugs me. He's only keeping track when it benefits him! He's forcing her to keep records too just so she doesn't get cheated. Sure, he's the one who cares about being cheated, but it's not so much about the money, for me, as the unfairness. You shouldn't have to be on guard against your partner cheating you, no matter how irrelevant the consequences.

Ashley: It makes me sleepy, too. I'd just pay for everything, and then break up with him very shortly thereafter. But she's been with him for 6 years!

Lulu: I can see hanging in to see if you eventually make your way into his circle of "people I'm looking out for, money-wise" but after 6 years, it seems unlikely he's capable of including anyone but himself on that list. I mean, intellectually, I think it doesn't necessarily reflect on his other attitudes,
because, people are weird about money sometimes. But it would be hard for me to have him on his guard against being cheated by me for 6 years without feelling like he doesn't trust me.

Ashley: I just can't imagine dating someone with that much focus on minutia. It doesn't really matter what it's about. If he were keeping track of something else that meaningless, I'd also be annoyed. Like, I dunno, maybe who's turn it is to do a particular chore?

Lulu: I would always either be like "who cares!" or I'd be looking for a system to keep track for us, so we don't have to waste time thinking about it. Which i guess is the beauty of the joint account--just both put in some agreed-upon amount and use it for joint purchases and forget about who paid for what when--but you also need a dose of "who cares" to make that work, in case of any disputes.

Ashley: Yeah. I would have dumped that guy on the first sign.

Lulu: I guess we are bad people to be advising on this.

That should probably be the conclusion of all our columns. Um... Send us your major life queries, folks!!!!!!!!! MY IMPORTANT DRAMA AT GMAIL DOT COM YO

Guys vs. grenades

The fifteen year old from a few days ago isn't alone: this girl in today's Ask Amy is 17, and also not allowed to date.

DEAR AMY: I am 17, and I don't know how to talk to my parents about letting me date. I've never had a boyfriend because my parents always said no.

I understand that having a relationship at 15 is too young, but my father has told my brothers and me that he was 17 when he started dating, so I think I should be able to date too.

I am the oldest child and the only daughter. My parents might be afraid of my getting pregnant as my mother did at a young age.

I am planning to go into the military service fairly soon.

How can I talk to my parents about this?

Amy offers some practical reasoning and compromise for her to try:

Ironically, if you are permitted to date while still living at home, this will give your parents an opportunity to see you navigate in the dating world, to check out your choices and to influence you in a positive way.

As it is, I worry that you'll go into the military with no interpersonal relationship experience. That could spell trouble for you.

Dating is important because it teaches you how to discern. It helps you figure out what makes other people tick. And dating is fun.

Start by asking your folks what might be acceptable. If they won't let you go out on a date, would they let you invite someone over to the house?

Lulu: "Yup, your parents are wrong!" That still doesn't really give her anything to actually do.

Ashley: She asked how to talk to her parents, and I guess Amy answers that. She tells her to ask specifically what she is and isn't allowed to do.

Lulu: I guess? I guess it's good to clarify the rules. I mean, really, she just needs to do what people since time immemorial have done and date anyway.

Ashley: Well, yes. Given the current world situation, it's probably safer to date than to go into the military, so why do they allow the more dangerous one?

Lulu:Yeah, her parents are cool with that? Maybe they aren't, but she'll be an adult by then.

Ashley: She can date in the military?

Lulu: I guess then she shouldn't date anyway now if she wants to train for following the arbitrary rules of superior officers. But then also no backtalk. Hers is not to reason why.

The official acceptable text response window

Today's Dear Abby concludes with a simple quick question:

What is an acceptable time frame to receive a response to a question you send via phone texting?

And gets a simple quick response:

Although we live in a world where most of us seek instant gratification, the answer depends upon how busy the person you are texting is.

While I admire brevity (clearly I am incapable of it), I also like responses which give arbitrary solid answers. I posed the reader's question to Darnell.

Darnell: Infinite?

Lulu: Well, yeah, that's true! "Acceptable" is the weird word there, since it seems like this is a question from the original text-message-conversation initiator. I don't think they get to say what's acceptable for the other person.

Darnell: Like, at what point you should start screaming at your friend because they haven't responded to your text?

Lulu: But I still feel like there is a distinct time frame to be figured out here. Let's imagine this is somebody who had received a text, and wanted to know if it was too late to respond to it.

Darnell: Texts are weird - I have an example of this from last night.

Lulu: You have a text from last night?

Darnell: Hah, I guess I do! My friend sent me a text, but I didn't have my phone on me at the time. When I finally saw it, it was when I was going to bed, so I didn't feel like responding. Then by this morning it was too late, so I will never respond to that text.

Lulu: Exactly. At a certain point, it becomes much more unlikely that you'll respond, because you feel like you missed the window.

Darnell: If somebody doesn't respond to your question within four hours you are allowed to call them, how about that?

Lulu: Yeah. That's what the person wants, I think; just to know when it's okay to bug them again. Or when to give up.

Darnell: If you cultivate a habit of fake-angry-demands you can do it almost immediately. "Hey, Lulu!" beat, beat, beat, "FINE!"

Lulu: Yeah, I mean, only you can determine what you deem acceptable or unacceptable. And the four-hour rule we just made up is not a bludgeon to beat people with. It's not "unacceptable" to fail to respond within four hours--as Abby points out, the person may have a busier life than you, or even if they don't, you can give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are busy with something for any given four-hour period. Or just don't feel like responding yet. That's not a capital crime. But most people who text do check their phones daily, so if you want a window for your own peace of mind, I think you can assume that if you don't get a response within 12 hours or so, the conversation is over.

Darnell: And if you ask a question three times via text and they never respond you are either doing something wrong or need new friends.

Never mind, teen sex is fine

So, today (shut up, shut up, it's still Thursday, shut up), as if in response to our criticisms, Dr. Wallace of Tween 12 and 20 is totally neutral about a teenage girl's plan to lose her virginity.

I'm 19 and my boyfriend is 22. We have been together for four years and are deeply in love. ... Our campuses are about two hours apart, so this makes it easy for us to spend time together. Believe it or not, I am a virgin, but that won't last long because we plan to get married after I graduate. I plan on becoming an elementary school teacher and he will coach and teach at the high school level.

Since it will be about two and a half years before I graduate, we want to start a sexual relationship. We will get married to each other, so we feel that a sexual relationship will only make us love each other more (no lectures, please).

My only worry is the possibility of becoming pregnant. We want children (three) after we marry, but having a baby nine months from now would put a serious crimp into our future plans. If I get on the pill and Phil uses protection, what are the chances that I would conceive? Of course, getting a sexually transmitted disease is out of the question.

Dr. Wallace says simply (this is seriously all):

If you're on the pill and he uses protection, you have a 99 percent chance of avoiding pregnancy. The odds for conception are very slim, but it is still possible.

Lulu: I love that in the face of her panicking about lectures, he's just remarkably blasé about the whole thing. So is 18 just the cutoff? Under 18, it's a travesty, over 18, of course you're having sex? She didn't get the memo either, I guess:

Ashley: Well, she thinks she'll get a lecture for considering sex before marriage.

Lulu: Oh. Right. Marriage. She mentions it, too, but it didn't even occur to me that that was a thing.

Ashley: East coast hippie liberal scum. It's weird that she's even writing in, especially considering the lecture she expects; she can't, you know, google that shit? Or ask her doctor?

Lulu: She sounds kind of repressed about sex, since she thinks she'll get a lecture for considering it at age 19, so she's not going to ask her doctor, but this information is all over the Internet. Planned Parenthood has a chart comparing all the birth control methods. She can also learn how to combine the probabilities of independent events, such as two different birth control methods failing. The actual probability of both failing is something like .04%, but only if both are used correctly, i.e. no forgetting two pills in a row then taking three in the same day. To pull a random example of misuse out of the air.

Ashley: Thanks for the PSA.

Lulu: I like, also, how he doesn't address the girl's weird control freaky vision of the future - I mean, I doubt she can be talked into chilling. Still, it seems weird not to even mention it. You want exactly three kids, huh? Good luck making life adhere to your plans. Also, good luck getting sex to "make you love each other more." No pressure or anything.

Ashley: It's important to have sex before marriage in case it sucks.

Lulu: And to expect it to suck the first time. I mean, results vary, I guess, but it seems like she's going to be really disillusions when it's awkward and odd. I wish I could tell her "It's really not that big a deal!" because I feel like her placing so much importance on it is going to bite her in the ass. Right now, to her, it's this monolithic, magical, pinnacle-of-human-existence, totally terrifying experience.

Ashley: That will automatically result in a baby.

Lulu: When she should know the karmic rule of "I want exactly three kids" is that you turn out to be infertile.

Ashley: Okay, here's my PSA: DO NOT use Lulu's karmic rules in lieu of medically-approved birth control methods.

Lulu: I'm Lulu, and I support that message.

We make matters much worse

Given our focus on younger readers, I was pleased to find a syndicated column with the same focus, Tween Twelve and Twenty by Dr. Robert Wallace, not least because he's kind of an old guy and is probably square and out of touch and other totally hip and with-it phrases of today's youth, of which I am clearly one.

I've actually been reading it a few days and was surprised to discover that I had... no problem... with most of his advice! For the most part, he seems straightforward and sympathetic, and treats younger readers as human people with autonomy and the ability to make choices based on logic, which many columnists fail to do.

However, today's column revealed a key override: teen sex.

I'm 15 and have a real big problem. I'm both mentally and physically mature for my age. And because of this, I feel comfortable with a guy who is 21. Believe it or not, even though Bobby is six years older, he is very immature and insecure. He is afraid that I will drop him. He is a "mamma's boy" and I guess that I "mother him." Bobby feels comfortable when he is with me, and I know that he loves me because we have discussed marriage. Besides, he gets jealous if I talk to another boy.

I'm not allowed to date. My parents think I'm spending time with my best friend when I'm with Bobby. If they ever found out, I would be grounded forever. Bobby and I are sexually involved, and he could be charged with statutory rape. Bobby is aware of the risk, but he thinks I'm worth it. Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that I do like Bobby, but I'm not sure if it's love.

My parents are very strict, but they're very loving. I love them very much, so I don't want to lose their trust. Do you see any harm in our relationship? Please say no. Bobby and I have been seeing each other for three months.

Dr. Wallace's response:

Stop a moment, and let's review the important points.

First, Bobby is six years older than you and also immature. Next, he's a jealous "mamma's boy." Point No. 3: You're not permitted to date, and you are breaking your parents' trust by sneaking out without their knowledge.

To make matters much worse, you're sexually active. Bobby could be charged with statutory rape and you could become pregnant.

Finally, you're not even sure if you love this guy.

Break up with Bobby for all of the above-mentioned reasons. He will find another girl to mother him and you will meet many boys within your "age range," who will enjoy your company whenever Mom and Dad allow you to date.

Do it now! Waiting too long could be disastrous in many ways.

Ashley: I love the "to make matters much worse." Oh, please. There is only one thing you say to a sexually-active teen, and that is "use condoms."

Lulu: Yes. She's going to ignore that advice so hard, and I'll tell you why.

Ashley: You have to wait till you're allowed to date? I'd be in an effing cloister.

Lulu: That's exactly why! I feel like there are legitimate points in there, but when you appeal to unconvincing arguments, you make all your arguments seem bad.

Ashley: I agree in general that dating Bobby is stupid. She does not seem especially mature.

Lulu: She's all over the map. He sucks, but please don't tell me to break up with him. The fact that he's insecure--that she recognizes that--and that she doesn't love him are good reasons to break up, but I also kind of feel like she has to discover that on her own. She asks if there is any harm in the relationship. My feeling is that she wants to separate out the grown-up party-line bullshit and see if there are any legitimate objections. But Wallace embraces all the objections, even ones she's clearly already selected as acceptable risks--like losing her parents' trust. It's like he's begging to be tuned out.

Ashley: I don't really see harm. I see harm for him, but whatever, he's the adult, he can make that choice. I don't think 15 is too young to start dating, whether or not one's parents approve. She's bored, she wants some drama, that's fine. Don't marry the guy, but it's fine for now--she's racking up some relationship experience, and there's something to be said for that.

Lulu: Yeah. It's sort of necessary to have some shitty relationships so you'll recognize a good one when you have it. Trying out shitty relationships is the kind of mistake you can't talk people out of making. It doesn't seem like a situation where she's being preyed upon; I believe her when she says they're on the same plane of maturity. She's going to grow out of him, but that will happen naturally.

Ashley: She should come up with contingency plans, because her parents are going to find out, and the guy is going to throw a fit when she dumps him. That's pretty much inevitable. But beyond figuring out how she's going to deal with that...

Lulu: Use condoms and don't get married.

Ashley: Yep.

It's not *always* misogyny...

Last Monday, Cary Tennis had an insane letter of the entertaining-if-read-through-crack-in-fingers variety:

Hey Cary,

How does one ... how do I ... rebuild lost karma?

Something happened between me and this woman B, last week, and ever since I feel so, so sad for her and for me and for everyone. ...

Recently, I had been not sleeping with anyone. ... Then two weeks ago, I tried online dating, immediately met S, and planned our first date. In the interim, I met B at a party, and we really hit it off and ended up sleeping with each other back at my place. The next night, I went with S on a first (wonderful) date and we also slept with each other. (Circumstantially, S is a better fit for someone that I could end up with than B was.) And instead of feeling like a slut, I felt cocky, like somehow the world owed me success with women.

In an under-analyzed attempt to prove to B something (I'm still not sure what), I asked her to go on a second date and we again went back to my place. Just before sleeping with me, though, she said that she wanted to be clear that she was not interested in a long-term boyfriend. Although I didn't want to be in a relationship with her either, counterintuitively I was still stung.

After sex, we talked about our exes. Intimately but painfully, B asked me to recount every detail of my girlfriend (unilaterally) breaking up with me. As I told B the sad story, I felt very close to her, but also felt very vulnerable and sad. And at that exact moment, B pointed to a rash on my knee and asked me what it was from. And instead of being a real person and lying and saying that I fell off my bicycle, I (under the pretense of honesty) snapped:

"You really want to know?"

"Yes."

"You sure?"

"Or course."

"It's from sex with another girl."

"You're kidding?"

"No."

"You're serious?"

"Yes."

"You mean you're not kidding?"

"No." (with analytic lack of emotion)

"When?"

"Two days ago."

"Where?"

I point to the rug across the room. She inhales a cigarette as we twist the conversation back to small talk. And after 20 sterile minutes, B leaves.

And despite this karma catastrophe, things are ironically working out really well with S, and we are moving quickly into a great relationship. Yet I feel so scarred by the episode of misogyny that I want to flagellate myself.

You know in "Gandhi" when the Hindu man confesses to Gandhi that he had killed a Muslim boy and that he was feeling incredible guilt and what should he do? And Gandhi replies that all he has to do is find an orphaned boy and to raise him like his own son. And the Hindu agrees. But then Gandhi (in Ben Kingsley's eternal voice) adds, "Only be sure ... that he is a Muslim. And that you raise him as one."

I know my story is nothing, but who can my adopted child be, Cary? I'm not an emotional person, usually. But I just feel so, so sad.

Cary Tennis is often very rambly and musey in a way that seems at best tangentially related to the problem at hand, but this is one of his good days, as he fairly succinctly calls the guy on his bullshit:

Let's clear up something. In the third paragraph from the end, there are four words that don't belong: "Catastrophe," "scarred," "misogyny" and "flagellate." It wasn't a catastrophe, it wasn't misogyny, you're not scarred and there's no call for flagellation.

It was just a mistake in judgment.

Maybe there were reasons. You want possible reasons? It's easy to imagine how you might have felt hurt and small as you recounted your sad breakup; it may have made you feel powerful to reveal how you had had another woman there just the other night. You're only human.

Humans make mistakes. Let it go.

I don't know about this business of finding a Muslim boy and raising him Muslim. But if you hurt this woman's feelings, maybe you can do something nice for her. There's hardly any downside to doing something nice for someone, as long as you don't blow it by acting all guilty and apologetic and complicated.

Just get her a little gift. Just get her a little gift because you feel you owe her something but don't tell her it's because you feel you owe her something or that will spoil it and you don't want to spoil it as you've already spoiled enough for one week.

Lulu: I like Cary this week! This guy is clearly trying to be earnest in a way he thinks will be appealing to Cary Tennis, and Cary is like, "...yeah, no." I don't really see why he's racked with guilt either. I can see how it's impolite to tell someone you're dating about the other people you're dating, but it's not like the worst thing evarrrr.

Ashley: No, and she said she didn't want a long term boyfriend. He said he was hurt by that even though he didn't want her as his girlfriend either. I think everything else in the letter is rubbish.I think he just said it to prove that he didn't want her either, and i don't necessarily think he should have lied, but he infused it with so much Meaning. If he were just matter of fact about it, it seems like it would have been fine.

Lulu: No, obviously he's a terrible person for infusing everything with Meaning, and he was trying to hurt her. Maybe that's why (or at least part of why) she was hurt. He comes across as this weird, vulnerable, snapping thing that lashes out in the face of extreme feelings, which he has often.

Ashley: And then feels guilty for the wrong things. Misogyny???

Lulu: Right, if anything, it seems more misogynist to lie, assuming the person can't handle knowing the relationship is not exclusive even when they said they didn't want one

Ashley: It also just seems like he's fishing for problems. It didn't work out with the girl he didn't want it to work out with, and it did work out with the girl he DID want it to work out with. Who even gives it a second thought??

Lulu: He feels guilty that it worked out so well, because he feels like he acted badly. And should be punished.

Ashley: Boo-hoo?

Lulu: He wants to make amends! The thing is, you don't always get to make amends for acting badly. Sometimes, you live with the knowledge that you are capable of acting badly, and you let that inform your future decisions of how to act.

Ashley: At some point though, the offense is so minor that feeling badly about it and focusing on it is just narcissism.

Lulu: Yes, I agree. It's All About Him. It's way more about his feelings about what he said than it is about hers. His concern over her seems really fake. It's about his ego, his vision of himself as a nice person.

Ashley: Gah, my coffee addiction is giving me a headache and also makes me hate this dude.

Lulu: Well, I kind of hate him too, but--

Ashley: Forget your feelings, focus on me! I have a coffee headache!

Lulu: I don't care that you have a coffee headache, and that makes me feel really bad about myself.

Ashley: You should make amends. But how?

Lulu: I will raise a baby and teach it to gently soothe people with cold compresses and caffeine injections.